Morality in abortion?

Theofane · May 30, 2012

Jade Margery said:
I would guess that from a christian point of view, suicide is worse than abortion, because if you kill yourself you cannot repent of your sins and get one of those nifty 'Jesus loves me for free' cards that are all the rage among convicts these days.

Some people have committed suicide, seen heaven/hell, and come back to Earth after being given a second chance. YouTube testimonies!

Theofane · May 30, 2012

Skaloop said:
That almost sounds like "Women, take control of your bodies early by doing only what I tell you to do." I know it's not what you mean, but it sounds that way.

The thing is, control of their bodies doesn't start or end with sex or pregnancy. It's continuous. And making a decision to engage in sexual behaviour is part of that control. Taking the risk of pregnancy is part of that control. Dealing with the consequences of a pregnancy, either by keeping the child, giving it up for adoption, or having an abortion, is part of that control.

Anyway, I'm glad you don't have daughters.

And if you had daughters, how would you raise them? What values would you give them? What would you teach them about sexuality and responsibility and self-respect? Would you protect them or allow them to become drug-addled prostitutes before age 20?

Skaloop · May 30, 2012

Theofane said:
And if you had daughters, how would you raise them? What values would you give them? What would you teach them about sexuality and responsibility and self-respect? Would you protect them or allow them to become drug-addled prostitutes before age 20?

Yes, because it's an either-or proposition between being totally chaste and becoming a drug-addled prostitute.

Getting into the details is too much for here, but basically, yes, I would protect them. I would protect them by educating them and supporting them. I'd teach them about the value of sex and inform them about how, when they feel they are ready to engage in it, to do it as safely as possible (both physically and emotionally).

Puptart · May 30, 2012

As a child-free individual there is very little chance of my bringing a baby to term if my husband and I got pregnant by accident (which is unlikely to happen as he's "fixed" but anything's possible). I have no interest in having a child of my own and I also have no interest in dumping another child into the adoption system while there are already enough kids out there in the world that aren't being adopted as it is.

As mentioned though, there is very little chance of a pregnancy happening with us, but in addition to taking responsible steps to ensure a pregnancy doesn't happen, we also have appropriate backup plans in place which include my knowing which abortion clinic I'd choose (I have their contact information handy) and having a good understanding of all the steps in the process to ensure we get everything taken care of in a timely and unsurprising manner.

Victoria Snow said:
Question: Is abortion ever (in any circumstance) justifiable?

My answer would be Yes.

yasic · May 30, 2012

Theofane said:
According to what moral code?

The moral code I follow is one that I built up using the lessons society taught us, a study of various moral and legal codes, philosophers experiences with morality, a lot of self reflection, reflections over the moral codes of my friends and family, moral guidelines ingrained in my through biological evolution, and a host of other sources.

This code is fluid and evolves over time as I get more experienced in life. It is the best moral code that I can come up with and I try to follow it as best I can.

yasic · May 30, 2012

Jade Margery said:
I would guess that from a christian point of view, suicide is worse than abortion, because if you kill yourself you cannot repent of your sins and get one of those nifty 'Jesus loves me for free' cards that are all the rage among convicts these days.

Answer is simple: Kill yourself in a non-immediate manner. For instance jump out of a plane or drink slow acting but fatal poison. This gives you a couple minutes after you committed the sin to repent!

Victoria Snow · May 30, 2012

I was also thinking that if a mother doesn't get an abortion but has no desire to take care of the child, the child would most likely go up for adoption and would have to try and find a home with people that they don't know and that could be hard for any child. But on the other hand, a woman shouldn't be forced to take care of a child that she doesn't love. All-in-all you can't really say that abortion is worse than giving up a child for adoption or caring for a child that you don't care for.

Shane Roach · May 30, 2012

Just as an FYI, the only children who statistically fare as well or better than children raised by their biological parents are children adopted before the age of 18 months.

So adoption is NOT this horrific thing. It used to actually be the norm before killing the unborn surfaced as an accepted alternative.

SPB1987 · May 30, 2012

Paradoxum said:
Yes. I think it can be justified whether you think the fetus is a person or not.

That's her choice.

I'm pretty sure I would do what was necessary to get an abortion. I refuse my life being held hostage. I will live and die according to my choices.

I am pro choice and I have to admit that as a man, I can not understand this point of view at all. This is exactly why I tend to be of the opinion that abortion and laws related to abortion should be primarily an issue for women. Now I can obviously understand having an abortion is cases of rape, incest, extreme physical abnormality(would you want to be born this way?) and that kind of thing. Although as a whole, I would rather we as a society focus more on why women have abortions and less on them actually having one.

SPB1987 · May 30, 2012

Theofane said:
Then it's her fault for getting pregnant when she should have kept her knees together. This is not a very nice thing to say, but it's the truth. Womens' control over their own bodies should start *before* the pregnancy test gives them some life-destroying bad news.

If I had daughters, this is how I'd raise 'em.

This basically takes all responsibility from the man in this situation. Women do not get pregnant on their own. If a guy gets a woman pregnant(one night stand included) he needs to be ready to step up and do what is necessary to ensure her having a healthy pregnancy.

Mling · May 30, 2012

Theofane said:
Then it's her fault for getting pregnant when she should have kept her knees together. This is not a very nice thing to say, but it's the truth. Womens' control over their own bodies should start *before* the pregnancy test gives them some life-destroying bad news.

If I had daughters, this is how I'd raise 'em.

Why is it more her fault than the fault of the one who couldn't keep his pants up? Why shouldn't she be able to give birth, then toss the baby into his lap and skip town?

corvus_corax · May 30, 2012

Theofane said:
Then it's her fault for getting pregnant when she should have kept her knees together.

If I had daughters, this is how I'd raise 'em.

Theofane said:
And if you had daughters, how would you raise them?...Would you protect them or allow them to become drug-addled prostitutes before age 20?

Your colours are showing through here, Theofane, bright and clearly, hahaha

yasic · May 31, 2012

Shane Roach said:
Just as an FYI, the only children who statistically fare as well or better than children raised by their biological parents are children adopted before the age of 18 months.

So adoption is NOT this horrific thing. It used to actually be the norm before killing the unborn surfaced as an accepted alternative.

Now if all children were adopted before 18 months then life would be good. However as it stands right now, if you are not a while male, your chances of adoption are not the best.

IAMstillis · May 31, 2012

Theofane said:
Some people have committed suicide, seen heaven/hell, and come back to Earth after being given a second chance. YouTube testimonies!

I love watching those!

Jade Margery · May 31, 2012

Theofane said:
Some people have committed suicide, seen heaven/hell, and come back to Earth after being given a second chance. YouTube testimonies!

Awfully convenient that near-death hallucinations correspond closely to the culture and religion of the person having them.

selfinflikted · May 31, 2012

Jade Margery said:
Awfully convenient that near-death hallucinations correspond closely to the culture and religion of the person having them.

Convenient, nothing. Only people who believe in heaven and hell see heaven or hell while having "near death experiences." The brain is an amazing organ that can produce some pretty wild experiences when it is close to death. They are simply that, though - products of the brain - probably much like dreams.

Jade Margery · May 31, 2012

selfinflikted said:
Convenient, nothing. Only people who believe in heaven and hell see heaven or hell while having "near death experiences." The brain is an amazing organ that can produce some pretty wild experiences when it is close to death. They are simply that, though - products of the brain - probably much like dreams.

Actually, I understand it is more associated with culture than belief. If you grow up in a predominantly Muslim or Hindu or Christian nation, you will see Muslim or Hindu or Christian imagery, whether you actually believe in it or not. That's because even if you don't believe an afterlife exists, you have an idea of what it's supposed to look like based on cultural representations of it. So when you start hallucinating while dying, your brain looks up 'afterlife' in the index of your memories and opens all the links it can find.

Gadarene · May 31, 2012

selfinflikted said:
Convenient, nothing. Only people who believe in heaven and hell see heaven or hell while having "near death experiences." The brain is an amazing organ that can produce some pretty wild experiences when it is close to death. They are simply that, though - products of the brain - probably much like dreams.

Nope, not that I've heard. You can still hallucinate the afterlife of your culture's majority religion even if you don't believe in it. I would imagine it's even more likely if you were raised in it, even if you then fell away.

selfinflikted · May 31, 2012

Jade Margery said:
Actually, I understand it is more associated with culture than belief. If you grow up in a predominantly Muslim or Hindu or Christian nation, you will see Muslim or Hindu or Christian imagery, whether you actually believe in it or not. That's because even if you don't believe an afterlife exists, you have an idea of what it's supposed to look like based on cultural representations of it. So when you start hallucinating while dying, your brain looks up 'afterlife' in the index of your memories and opens all the links it can find.

Gadarene said:
Nope, not that I've heard. You can still hallucinate the afterlife of your culture's majority religion even if you don't believe in it. I would imagine it's even more likely if you were raised in it, even if you then fell away.

Perhaps my use of the word "believe" was a mistake. It is better to say that those who have been exposed to such beliefs, whether they believe in them or not, are more likely to have those experiences. Thanks for the correction, you two. Anyway, the point remains that people are not seeing an afterlife when they are close to death.

sharing101 · Jun 1, 2012

Abortion can only be justified if it is done to save the mother's life. Any other reason for abortion is selfish, self-serving and evil.

As to suicide...

"Biblically speaking, suicide is done by people who are hopeless, like the traitor, Judas." - Bro. Eli Soriano

Ask Bro. Eli, and the Bible will answer.

Morality in abortion?

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