Money or time

Boidae · Jan 26, 2013

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Boidae your wife and daughter have such a treasure in you brother.

Thank you for the compliment.

God has been showing my wife just how much your statement is true this past week and there have been quite a few things changing in a positive way in our marriage.

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

The Key is balance. Work smarter not harder and value time-it is not that man must choose 1 or the other. He must balance and make the most of both.

Hi ifnotforgrace,

There are a lot of areas where I could agree that balance is very useful. However, in all these situations it's essential to go back and look at what Jesus actually said about it, to find what balance HE thought we should have.

Regarding this issue of time vs money, it's very similar (if not the very same) to something Jesus said about God vs money. He said we cannot work for God and mammon (money and the things money can buy) at the same time without cheating on one or the other.

So, when you talk about balancing the two, it sounds a bit different from what Jesus was saying. He said we will hate one and love the other. I'm wondering how you view that in the context of balance and this issue? The full context of the verse I am referring to can be found in Matthew 19-34.

It's the same place where Jesus tells us to consider the birds of the air and the flowers of the field specifically because they do not spend their time working to get more money, and yet God still takes care of them, and then follows that up with an admonition to "seek first the kingdom of Heaven".

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

I do not believe that anyone would say that because I am not working, that I should not eat because of our situation.

I'm not quite sure what ifnotforgrace was getting at when quoting that verse about not eating if you don't work.

However, what you are describing here is something I've had trouble with in the past, too, and it's part of the brainwashing I see in the economic system of the world where many people have come to believe that the only real work is that which is done for money.

For example, in the past I have said, "work for love not for money". the phrase includes the word "work" in both cases (i.e. for love or money), but so many times I have people quote that verse back to me about "if you do not work you should not eat".

There is something about getting money for our work which seems to make the work more legitimate, accepted, and respectable.

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

In other words, people hear the phrase "work for God, not money" and they think, "that's ridiculous, we'd die without money".

We didn't say that, you did. Every persons motive is not what you might think it is.

Relax, Nora. I wasn't accusing you of anything. My experience is that MANY people believe they would die without money and that's what my comment was based on.

Time cannot be bought.

It's true that no one can pay to buy back time already spent. But that's not really the issue, is it? People can definitely buy the time of others. It happens all over the world in the form of pay checks and salaries etc...

People agree to give their time doing particular jobs in exchange for money. I don't see the point in arguing that this doesn't happen, unless you misunderstood my point. Hopefully, if that is the case, it's cleared up now.

Norah63 · Jan 26, 2013

Thank you CG, I am relaxed. Maybe you could start another thread on the kingdom.
Telling us a little bit of how you see that being shown out in the world, by yourself as well as others.
The details might let us all see how it is done with time alone. No money involved.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 26, 2013

Norah63 said:
Thank you CG, I am relaxed. Maybe you could start another thread on the kingdom.
Telling us a little bit of how you see that being shown out in the world, by yourself as well as others.
The details might let us all see how it is done with time alone. No money involved.

Good point Nora.

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

Maybe you could start another thread on the kingdom.

Hi Nora. Thanks for your comments. From what I can see in the teachings of Jesus, this issue of time vs money is very much related to the kingdom. In Matthew 6:24-34 Jesus starts off by saying that we cannot work for God and mammon (money and the things money can buy) at the same time without cheating on one or the other.

He concludes that line of reasoning by declaring that our new job is to "seek first the Kingdom of Heaven". This issue of who we give our time to (i.e. who we work for) and seeking the Kingdom of Heaven are intimately related to one another, so to me, it is strange that you suggest starting a different thread to discuss the kingdom, as though that is a topic unrelated to time vs money.

The details might let us all see how it is done with time alone. No money involved.

It looks like there may still be some misunderstanding here. What I (and several other people) have been trying to communicate is an issue of motivations.

I never criticized anyone for using money nor did I teach that people should not use money. I only discussed what Jesus taught, that people cannot work for money and God at the same time without cheating on one or the other (because they represent two conflicting sets of values).

Can you see the difference between using money and working to get more of it and how that relates to motivations? If not, then that could be part of where the misunderstandings keep coming from.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 26, 2013

CG, Nora has not misunderstood, you have. She very nicely told you to start your own thread on the topic you want and stop with the hijack of her thread. It is simple. but you can't seem to take the hint. There is nothing wrong with what you want to discuss. Just start your own thread.

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

Hi handmaid. Earlier you said that this defensiveness you feel is "perhaps" related to the fact that we have come to different conclusions on this issue of time vs money. Do you remember that?

That's a bit different to "hijacking" a thread, isn't it?

Yeah, I realize she very nicely suggested that I could start another thread on the kingdom, but I felt it was worth commenting on the irony of a Christian suggesting that time vs money is a separate issue from discussion of the kingdom of Heaven, especially since our Lord and savior said quite the opposite. (i.e. you can't work for two masters, God or money; seek first the kingdom of God). It's all there in the same sermon.

I also suggested that this distinction, separating what we do with our time from our service to the kingdom, is probably quite close to the root of our disagreement and is probably why Nora suddenly wanted me to go somewhere else.

Norah63 · Jan 27, 2013

The Kingdom is just as simple as doing these greater things..
Healing the sick, casting out devils,
giving sight to the blind. Giving the good news of the power of salvation to those who haven't heard. Saying silver and gold have I none but such as I have give I thee, rise up and walk. Yes all these are the greater works, and none can do these things except they be called and empowered .
Now money is what was also used by the good Samaritan to leave for the care of the one found by the way. There is no greed in any of these things as far as I can see.
What do you see as the kingdom here on earth, that would prevent the use of money?
We have already established that the motive is not what you were judging, or discerning. A christian does all that they do out of love, for that is what the greatest of the gifts we have been given. That is the fruit we are to produce.
That take up a life of time.
Thank you for you interest in this thread.

candle glow · Jan 27, 2013

Hi Nora, thanks for your response.

We have already established that the motive is not what you were judging, or discerning.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Who is the "we" and how did you come to the conclusion that I am not discerning the motive for why people work?

I think you may still be confused about where I am coming from, whether deliberately or genuinely.

Now money is what was also used by the good Samaritan to leave for the care of the one found by the way. There is no greed in any of these things as far as I can see.
What do you see as the kingdom here on earth, that would prevent the use of money?

This is why I think you may still be confused. I've never said that people should not use money or that it's a sin to use money. You asked me about this in an earlier post and this was my response:

Can you see the difference between using money and working to get more of it and how that relates to motivations? If not, then that could be part of where the misunderstandings keep coming from.

Instead of looking at what Jesus actually said about working to get money you keep going back to "it's not a sin to use money, it's not a sin to use money!"

Shakespeare described it as "protesting too much".

Norah63 · Jan 27, 2013

Sorry for our failure to communicate CG. I will leave it there.

Omena · Jan 28, 2013

As I was reading through these posts, I saw adverts on the sides of the webpage. It's interesting that mixed in with ads about Christian guitar tabs and church websites, there are ads about quick ways to earn cash.

Anyway, I also feel that CG has a point that this discussion about money is directly related to the Kingdom of Heaven. I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed that people are asking him to leave on the basis that he's not on topic. The reason I'm not surprised is because we've seen so much of this dismissive attitude on the 'Living by Faith-How to do it' thread. Can't anyone see that people simply don't want to hear what Jesus said about money, because it challenges their fear and desire of money and the things it buys? I thought Handmaid's "Perhaps" comment was the most honest I've seen from so many skeptics so far on this topic.

Norah63 · Jan 29, 2013

And so you have now decided or decerned who is a skeptic?
Jesus said who ever is not against me is for me.
If any have a full understanding of all that the kingdom is, that would be
Interesting to hear. Is it more than one thing, or is that the total.

candle glow · Jan 29, 2013

And so you have now decided or decerned who is a skeptic?

Hi Nora,
Handmaid herself "perhaps" admitted to wanting me to go away, not because of "hijacking" the thread, but because I was promoting a different conclusion than what you and she had come to about how we use our time.

I was pushing people to consider what Jesus said about two masters, time, and serving the Kingdom, but I don't think a single person responded to that. Instead both you and handmaid decided that talk of using our time to work for God's kingdom first, rather than money, was off topic from time vs money?

Can you see how Omena and I are the ones who should be feeling a bit incredulous here?

Jesus said who ever is not against me is for me.

So does it show a "for" or "against" Jesus, when people just don't quite get around to discussing what he actually said?

Omena · Feb 2, 2013

And so you have now decided or decerned who is a skeptic?

The definition of a skeptic is a person who is inclined to question or doubt. You may not be coming right out and saying "I am skeptical of your opinion on what Jesus said", but you are showing your skepticism of CG's points by telling him he is off topic and hijacking your thread. I feel it's dishonest to say that you're not being skeptical, when you're totally refusing to discuss the points that CG is raising, or at the very least letting CG post his thoughts without being hassled.

I think you know that CG's opinions are very much on topic, so why are you saying they're not?

smithwood · Feb 2, 2013

Time is more improtant because once it's gone you can't get it back

Norah63 · Feb 2, 2013

Amen Smithwood!

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