Money or time

candle glow · Jan 24, 2013

Hi Nora.

The real question is, are we actually helping people when we "trade" with them? What happens when we have something someone else needs, but they don't have anything to trade in return?

Would we help them anyway? Maybe so, if it's once or twice. But what happens when we are confronted with a whole world asking for help all the time, with no promise of anything in return for it?

That is when our motivations become clear.

Norah63 · Jan 24, 2013

Would they be able to offer time as their part? How valuable is time?

candle glow · Jan 24, 2013

Hi Nora,

Good question. I personally believe our time is the most valuable thing we have to offer others. The problem I see is when we start charging for our time.

There are many people in the world who could afford to give us something in exchange for our time and it's natural that we'd want good value for our time, not only because we feel a need to survive, but also because we value our time.

When we give it away for free, a kind of uncertainty sets in, like fear of how we'll take care of ourselves if we don't have some kind of assurance that we'll get something in return for our efforts and we also may feel bitter if our time is not appreciated by those we are giving it to.

But that is why Jesus talked about not allowing fear to stop us from working for love, because God is able to take care of our needs if we work for him. He has thousands of ways to take care of us, but the one overriding condition is that we seek his kingdom first.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 24, 2013

candle glow said:
Hi Nora,

Good question. I personally believe our time is the most valuable thing we have to offer others. The problem I see is when we start charging for our time.

There are many people in the world who could afford to give us something in exchange for our time and it's natural that we'd want good value for our time, not only because we feel a need to survive, but also because we value our time.

When we give it away for free, a kind of uncertainty sets in, like fear of how we'll take care of ourselves if we don't have some kind of assurance that we'll get something in return for our efforts and we also may feel bitter if our time is not appreciated by those we are giving it to.

But that is why Jesus talked about not allowing fear to stop us from working for love, because God is able to take care of our needs if we work for him. He has thousands of ways to take care of us, but the one overriding condition is that we seek his kingdom first.

Yeah, but the topic is, what is more important to YOU, not what you do with what is more important to you. Let's not change the topic.

Breezee · Jan 25, 2013

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Yeah, but the topic is, what is more important to YOU, not what you do with what is more important to you. Let's not change the topic.

Interesting you should say that, because I do think what CG is saying is relevant to the topic. Mostly because I don't think society sees all people's time as being important. Have you ever noticed how poor people have to wait in long lines for various things, but rich people almost never do?
That's because people think that rich people's time is more important, because they can convert their time into larger amounts of money. Whereas a poor person (perhaps without a job?) will not be able to cash in their time for as much dough.
In fact the more money you make the more respected you are all round and I think what CG was saying is that is not fair. People are people and time is time. We should not respect the rich man because he is rich. The poor man's time is just as valuable (unless all you believe in is $$).

You can trade your time for money, but from where I'm sitting, it's not a very good deal. You're trading something irreplaceable for something that's not real wealth but just a symbol of it.

I vote for time.

Norah63 · Jan 25, 2013

Thank you Handmaid. Thats just what i was thinking.
So easy to get the focus off the thread.

candle glow · Jan 25, 2013

Thank you Handmaid. Thats just what i was thinking.
So easy to get the focus off the thread.

Nora did ask me a question, which I thought I was answering. To be fair, I did say that I felt one was more important than the other and then I followed that up with an explanation for why I felt that way.

But then again, maybe the problem is that this thread is not really meant to be a close examination of the motives behind why people feel one is more important over the other. Perhaps all Nora really was looking for is just a one word answer (i.e. time or money).

If that's the case, then I was at least partially off topic and it won't happen again.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 25, 2013

Norah63 said:
Thank you Handmaid. Thats just what i was thinking.
So easy to get the focus off the thread.

It is. It is hard for people to take a personal look at themselves and ask themselves a question methinks. Don't worry about other people and what they ought to be doing with their time and money.Look at the man in the mirror. Your question was a good one for me, because it brought some reflection.

candle glow · Jan 25, 2013

Your question was a good one for me, because it brought some reflection.

That's good to hear, handmaid. Would it be okay to hear a bit more about your reflections?

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 25, 2013

candle glow said:
That's good to hear, handmaid. Would it be okay to hear a bit more about your reflections?

Hi CG. Yes, I shared that at the beginning of the thread, you may have missed it. Post #3.

candle glow · Jan 25, 2013

Hi CG. Yes, I shared that at the beginning of the thread, you may have missed it. Post #3.

Ahhh right. I didn't miss it, I'd just forgotten that you posted this (I read it shortly after this thread was created). Thanks for reminding me.

This is what you posted.

I think time is more important than money in my life. When I was young I used to work two and three jobs trying to get money. LUNACY! That is time I can not reclaim and like
Dysert said, time is finite and very precious. I am not saying money is not important, it is. It is just not more important that time.

You start off by sharing which of the two options is more important to you, and then you followed it up with some explanation for why you've come to that conclusion.

That's what I did, too. I wonder why it's on-topic for you, but off-topic for me?

I've taken a much different position from you about the significance of money. Perhaps that is why you feel my post was "off topic" while yours was "on topic"?

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 25, 2013

candle glow said:
Ahhh right. I didn't miss it, I'd just forgotten that you posted this (I read it shortly after this thread was created). Thanks for reminding me.

This is what you posted.

You start off by sharing which of the two options is more important to you, and then you followed it up with some explanation for why you've come to that conclusion.

That's what I did, too. I wonder why it's on-topic for you, but off-topic for me?

I've taken a much different position from you about the significance of money. Perhaps that is why you feel my post was "off topic" while yours was "on topic"?

Perhaps.

candle glow · Jan 25, 2013

Perhaps.

Ahh ok thanks for (semi) clarifying that. I think both parties can disagree and still be on topic about what it is they are disagreeing over, so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that disagreement means "off topic".

Since you didn't contradict my earlier comments about this thread being meant to establish one word answers (time or money) I'll assume you're okay with me looking a bit more closely at the disagreement with an explanation as to what I think the disagreement is.

You said:

I am not saying money is not important, it is. It is just not more important that time.

And I said:

He has thousands of ways to take care of us, but the one overriding condition is that we seek his kingdom first.

In the same sermon where Jesus talks about seeking God's kingdom first, he talks about two masters. He says one is God and the other is mammon (money and the things money can buy).

He says that we cannot work for one without cheating on the other and that we will show our contempt for the master we choose NOT to work for.

Jesus did not describe it as a matter of deciding which one should be more important than the other. I believe that any discussion on the significance of money should definitely be considered heavily in the light of what our savior said about it.

michaelG1949 · Jan 25, 2013

guess it doesn't really matter to me which. if they ask and i have it, after praying, i might give it. my inclination is to just give but can't always. and sometimes i believe God didn't want me to. i have been asked for money when i didn't have any, i knew the people needed it. i just prayed, Father, if you want me to help them, you'll have to provide it. and he did. othet times he didn't and it still worked out for the best. he knows what he's doing, we just have to be willing to do or go what or where he says.

candle glow · Jan 26, 2013

Jesus did not describe it as a matter of deciding which one should be more important than the other. I believe that any discussion on the significance of money should definitely be considered heavily in the light of what our savior said about it.

I'd like to give some clarification to this point. The phrase "more important" implies that working for money IS important, but just not AS important as working for God.

However, Jesus described a situation in which we forsake one for the other, based on two completely opposite values.

When we charge people for our help it works against the values of Heaven where we share with one another. But, this is not an absolute rule which people can write down in stone, because Jesus' teachings are representative of the holy spirit, and we can't put the spirit in a box.

It is unfortunate that an examination of Jesus' teachings so often results in people interpreting what he actually said as being too extreme, to the point that it starts to sound ridiculous to take him at face value.

In other words, people hear the phrase "work for God, not money" and they think, "that's ridiculous, we'd die without money".

Norah63 · Jan 26, 2013

In other words, people hear the phrase "work for God, not money" and they think, "that's ridiculous, we'd die without money".

We didn't say that, you did. Every persons motive is not what you might think it is.
Either with time or money. It is always easier to give money than time. Time cannot be bought. Try to buy back one minute of yesterday.
We might trade time for goods, or services, or money. All in my outlook are less important than time.
It might depend on what side of youth, or old age, you look at it.
The kingdom is another subject.

If Not For Grace · Jan 26, 2013

Boidae said:
If I remember correctly and CG can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you work and receive a paycheck you have a love of money.

If a man will not work-Neither let him eat...(money is only the medium..and like fire warms and burns)

The Key is balance. Work smarter not harder and value time-it is not that man must choose 1 or the other. He must balance and make the most of both.

michaelG1949 · Jan 26, 2013

I agree that the motivation is key. I have witnessed people who gave their time for money only so they could help more people and spread Gods word. Saying things like "I can help a man build a house, or with the amount of money i make in that time i can build two people houses". The only problems i can see with that is quite often hey get more and more caught up in the money. also as a follower of Christ, the time spent working side by side will make a bigger impression on a person. how many times have we heard of fathers working all the time to have more money for their family, and yrs later the family says all we wanted was your time. we need to do both, and thru prayer and "time" spent wih God with God we will achieve the right balance. Even Paul did both.

Boidae · Jan 26, 2013

If Not For Grace said:
If a man will not work-Neither let him eat...(money is only the medium..and like fire warms and burns)

The Key is balance. Work smarter not harder and value time-it is not that man must choose 1 or the other. He must balance and make the most of both.

I agree with you.

Right now I am not working where I am an employee. I am at home as a caregiver for my wife who has multiple sclerosis and by extension taking care of our 11 week old daughter.

In essence it's a job and I lookng at two different ways to be paid for being a full time caregiver to my wife.

I do not believe that anyone would say that because I am not working, that I should not eat because of our situation.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jan 26, 2013

Boidae your wife and daughter have such a treasure in you brother.

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