missing mass

Guardian Angel · Sep 1, 2011

Is it ok to let my 9 year old daughter to on a camping trip with friends (who are not catholic) knowing that she will miss Sunday mass when she is away. I say that she should forget the camping trip since there would not be an opportunity for her to go to mass, My wife disagrees with me saying my daughter should go on the camping trip, knowing full well that she will miss Sunday mass in the process.

Dark_Lite · Sep 1, 2011

Technically, if there is no REAL impediment, then you're not supposed to miss Mass. On the other hand, social development is key for children. The Church is organic, not rigid. It calls people to spiritual development as much as it calls them to human development. Not knowing the specifics of your situation beyond "she wants to go camping," it is hard to give an answer.

MKJ · Sep 1, 2011

It strikes me that this would preclude most camping for people, since week-ends are the only time for many people to do it, and there are few Catholic churches in the woods.

It would also suggest that one could not take a trip anywhere there would be no church over a week-end.

I'd ask your priest.

St_Barnabus · Sep 1, 2011

I agree with you, Guardian Angel. The message you would send to your daughter, if you let her go camping, is that mortal sin is ok - once in awhile. Children get the message real quick and remember it in the future for other events. I remember young St. Dominic Savio saying "death before committing a mortal sin." Your daughter has nobody else to set a good example but her parents, who stand in God's place. Especially with your user name.

Let us know how you finally decide, ok?

Vendetta · Sep 1, 2011

St_Barnabus said:
I agree with you, Guardian Angel. The message you would send to your daughter, if you let her go camping, is that mortal sin is ok - once in awhile. Children get the message real quick and remember it in the future for other events. I remember young St. Dominic Savio saying "death before committing a mortal sin." Your daughter has nobody else to set a good example but her parents, who stand in God's place. Especially with your user name.

Let us know how you finally decide, ok?

I second this.

Gwendolyn · Sep 1, 2011

My family used to camp a lot when I was younger. Oftentimes in the backwoods, there were no churches. I guess some people would say that we sinned mortally because we went camping only when my dad didn't have to work (weekends), but... it was a great experience anyway.

Searching_for_Christ · Sep 1, 2011

you should figure out if they are camping within traveling distance of a Church, and if they are, is the family willing to get her to the Church? When do they leave? is there a way she can make it to Saturday mass? I heard that going to Saturday mass fulfilled the obligation (so long as its the late day one)

Memento Mori · Sep 1, 2011

I read a question like this on CAF's Ask an Apologist a while ago. Michelle Arnold said something to the effect that treating Sunday Mass as a non-negotiable will teach your child respect for the Sacraments.

Rhamiel · Sep 1, 2011

would saturday evening be an option?

Rhamiel · Sep 1, 2011

Jared R said:
I read a question like this on CAF's Ask an Apologist a while ago. Michelle Arnold said something to the effect that treating Sunday Mass as a non-negotiable will teach your child respect for the Sacraments.

when i was growing up we very very very rarely missed sunday mass
even when on vacations we could find a church somewhere

ProScribe · Sep 1, 2011

My prayer corner is like my little church. I don't anyone to destroy it.

Gwendolyn · Sep 2, 2011

Rhamiel said:
when i was growing up we very very very rarely missed sunday mass
even when on vacations we could find a church somewhere

Same, but camping was a different story because we were always in the backwoods of Ontario... not many churches to be found amongst the flora and fauna.

Btw - I have a very deep respect for the sacraments, despite the fact that camping in my childhood meant I missed mass sometimes.

MoonlessNight · Sep 2, 2011

Is Sunday evening mass a possibility? Maybe it's just because I've lived in College towns, but it seems like there's usually a parish that has a late Sunday mass if there are at least a few churches in the same area.

My take on this would be, before deciding anything, at first make sure that in fact it is impossible to attend mass and go on the camping trip.

Beyond that I don't know. I can see the arguments either way. Certainly it is not a mortal sin to miss a mass when there is no opportunity to go to mass, but I'm not sure that going on a camping trip counts as "no opportunity to go to mass" especially if there are churches in the area.

Certainly it should be made sure that going to mass is mutually exclusive with the trip before the decision is made. I think that letting her go on the trip without looking into the possibilities would foster the "if I'm on vacation, I don't need to go to mass, even if there is a church down the block from the hotel" attitude that a lot of Catholics have.

I think the situation is a little different if the camping is in the deep woods with significant travel time versus the camping being just outside of town or something.

S.ilvio · Sep 2, 2011

Of course you should let her go...

Anhelyna · Sep 2, 2011

I'm with S.ilvio.

Let her go for this occasion - regard it as an educational trip [ well it is if she's never been camping before ]

Explain to her that the Church asks that she attends Mass every Sunday [ and this includes the Saturday Vigil Mass ] but at the same time does understand that occasionally you cannot go.

Explain also that missing Mass is something that has to be Confessed and then emphasise that the Church is a loving one and also an understanding one and forgiveness is always given if you are truly sorry for something you have done - as in missing Mass 'cos you had been taken on a camping trip and couldn't get to Mass.

FullyMT · Sep 2, 2011

Guardian Angel said:
Is it ok to let my 9 year old daughter to on a camping trip with friends (who are not catholic) knowing that she will miss Sunday mass when she is away. I say that she should forget the camping trip since there would not be an opportunity for her to go to mass, My wife disagrees with me saying my daughter should go on the camping trip, knowing full well that she will miss Sunday mass in the process.

It would be helpful to know the general area of the campsite. My family goes camping in near Yosemite in northern California and we attend a Mass at a local parish nearby. But, we've also gone to Disney World and on Cruises where Mass wasn't offered...I just brought some of readings to pray with on my own (My family didn't really care).

If it's close enough, would the family be willing to go to Mass with her? Is she able to read on her own and reflect? If she were at Mass with you, would she understand the homily and celebration? There are so many if's and questions that it's hard to say for sure.

Also, for the record, missing Mass is not a mortal sin, it is a GRAVE sin. We cannot judge whether or not it is mortal.

St_Barnabus · Sep 2, 2011

What about the CCC definition....
1759 "An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention" (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.

The good intention of having a nice camping experience with noncatholic friends cannot become a morally good act if one foresees in advance that he will be committing a mortal sin.

Another consideration would be the scandal a Catholic gives to noncatholics who don't see any problem with missing a Sunday "service." I seriously doubt they would drive your daughter to a church in order to fulfill her obligation, but you could check on that possibility in advance. She could be ridiculed by those who wouldn't understand.

Nymira · Sep 2, 2011

Could you not ask your priest if she could, in this instance, attend a weekday mass and have it count as her Sunday obligation as she will be away on the weekend? (Or if time is an issue, a Saturday mass even.)

St_Barnabus · Sep 2, 2011

FullyMT said:
Also, for the record, missing Mass is not a mortal sin, it is a GRAVE sin. We cannot judge whether or not it is mortal.

Yes, and what determines the gravity? Remember the three necessary conditions for mortal sin:
... grave matter (yes),
... full knowledge (yes),
... consent of the will anyway (yes).
The only condition excusing us is when we are willing to go to mass, but prevented by illness or some dire condtion beyond our control - 20" of snow, for example. Many times, a bishop will issue a statement excusing Catholics in that case.

Dad, there's also what we call "cooperating in the sin of another." You could also be morally culpable for giving permission for what you know is wrong. I sense that your conscience is already speaking to you, or you would not have posted this thread.

benedictaoo · Sep 2, 2011

Nymira said:
Could you not ask your priest if she could, in this instance, attend a weekday mass and have it count as her Sunday obligation as she will be away on the weekend? (Or if time is an issue, a Saturday mass even.)

Nope. Only in real serious matter may that be the case, like if ones job prevented one from attending any Mass anywhere for the whole weekend.

It's a Sunday obligation- not a Tuesday or Wednesday obligation. There is the Saturday vigil Mass that can fulfill your obligation but not many Catholics know this, you have to have a good reason to attend the Saturday Vigil Mass.

A lot of Catholics like to go on Saturdays becuase its more convenient and it frees up their Sunday's . ah-ah, not supposed to do that.

Now that we have gotten out of the way the legal aspect of it...

A 9 year old girl has a camping trip and will miss Mass... personally, I don't see her 9 year old world truing upside down by her missing and not going. It's not like, I hate God and refuse to go to Mass.

If there isn't an opportunity for her to go to Mass on Saturday or a late Sunday or very early Sunday Mass, then that's their (parents) call.

I both don't see and at the same time I do see the big deal in it.

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