Misconceptions about Jesus

Forge3 said:

Would somebody please help me understand this point? I really want to understand this theological standpoint.

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Here's a thread where it was discussed, I know many Reformed brothers disagree with me, I hope it helps with your understanding of my view.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7509749/

I wonder how many Arminians it takes to screw in a light bulb? Kidding. I really wonder if Arminians and non-Calvinists believe Calvinism is a false Gospel.

Good quote.

The Christ of Arminianism

1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

5 more found on the link above.

Let me then be clear with my intention, if I wasn't already. I never wanted to debate Limited atonement, I agree with it, I never wanted to debate it, I want to discuss it with my Reformed brethren who already agree with it. If I wanted to debate it, I know what rooms to go into, thanks.

So let's not go "off topic" in this thread. If you want to refute it, there are other rooms for that.

JM said:

I wonder how many Arminians it takes to screw in a light bulb? Kidding. I really wonder if Arminians and non-Calvinists believe Calvinism is a false Gospel.

Good quote.

The Christ of Arminianism

1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

5 more found on the link above.

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lol. I don't like the Arminian god. He's not All Powerful, he just tries his hardest.

JM said:

Still, I really wonder if Arminians and non-Calvinists believe Calvinism is a false Gospel.

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JM..you know the answer as well as I do.

Orange_County_Chopper said:

Let me then be clear with my intention, if I wasn't already. I never wanted to debate Limited atonement, I agree with it, I never wanted to debate it, I want to discuss it with my Reformed brethren who already agree with it. If I wanted to debate it, I know what rooms to go into, thanks.

So let's not go "off topic" in this thread. If you want to refute it, there are other rooms for that.

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The Westminster Confession of Faith in 1646 pretty much sums up my position.


CHAPTER III.

Of God's Eternal Decree.

I. God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, as that which would come to pass, upon such conditions.
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.
IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.
V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace.
VI. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
VII. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.
VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending to the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election. So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God; and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.

Jesus' sacrifice was for His elect and the elect alone, why He chose to extend His grace to some and not others is far beyond my comprehension except I believe it ultimately results in His glory for saving some who don't deserve His grace.

JustAsIam am I incorrect to say we're on the same team?

Orange_County_Chopper said:

[Misconceptions about Jesus] One of the biggest ones being that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins. Discuss.

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Orange_County_Chopper said:

I never wanted to debate Limited atonement, I agree with it, I never wanted to debate it, I want to discuss it with my Reformed brethren who already agree with it.

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As of this writing (mine here) there has been to my knowledge no response to my post #30. And now as then, "I am still unclear as to your intention." Did you want to discuss Limited Atonement (second quote above), presumably meaning Scriptural and theological proofs for it or antecedent (OT) theology related to it or effects on the framing of the gospel message from it or pastoral consequences from it?

Or did you want to discuss issues (or "errors of practice" as I wrote) that have arisen in the church and/or outside it in consequence of the misconception that "Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins" (per the OP quote above and again my at least implied request for clarification in post #30 responding to your OP)?

Or all the above? Or for that matter, are you challenging potential posters to defend or refute your claim that the "Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins" misconception is in fact "one of the biggest" (biggest in what sense?)-- as opposed to, for example, idolatry, abortion, materialism, spiritual sloth, or some other proposed "big" misconception?

Please clarify.

I don't know how much clearer I could be guy. JM and other Reformed brothers don't seem confused by it. I don't want to debate it.

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned, but something I'd like to mention is that a correct anthropological view, that is total inability, leads by necessity to unconditional election or sovereign grace, leaving us with limited atonement, or God's unconditional choosing of certain individuals, particular grace in accordance with His eternal covenant of redemption.

Orange_County_Chopper said:

I don't know how much clearer I could be guy. JM and other Reformed brothers don't seem confused by it. I don't want to debate it.

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You could, for example, clarify by addressing my questions concerning clarification, questions which assume, but do not debate or challenge Limited Atonement.

I choose to not pass go, not collect 200.

Orange_County_Chopper said:

JustAsIam am I incorrect to say we're on the same team?

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You're correct, we're on the same team, my apologies for posting what we both obviously believe. Sometimes I get carried away and go on a tangent, it's a flaw of mine.