Miracles and "Magic"

Smidlee said:

I don't care if it's a Christian who came up with it it's still junk science.

Click to expand...

Have you started a thread over at Cosmoquest to show them the errors of their ways?

Davian said:

Have you started a thread over at Cosmoquest to show them the errors of their ways?

Click to expand...

I love chocolate ice cream and another loves vanilla. You have revelation or you have speculation.

Smidlee said:

I love chocolate ice cream and another loves vanilla.

Click to expand...

I'll take that as a 'no'.

You have revelation or you have speculation.

Click to expand...

Revelation, as in imagination?

Davian said:

I'll take that as a 'no'.

Revelation, as in imagination?

Click to expand...

Imagination is more connected to speculation which is why the theory constantly changing and have to rely on dark magic pixie dust to make the theory work. RNA world is nothing but man's imagination.

Smidlee said:

Imagination is more connected to speculation which is why the theory constantly changing and have to rely on dark magic pixie dust to make the theory work. RNA world is nothing but man's imagination.

Click to expand...

As is revelation, by all evidence to date.

Smidlee said:

I don't care if it's a Christian who came up with it it's still junk science.

Click to expand...

Why? It seems that your reaction is simply because you do not understand it.

Do you understand how we know that as galaxies get more distant that they are moving faster and faster away from our galaxy?

Justatruthseeker said:

So if I ask you how an electron positioned here affects an electron positioned miles away - and your best answer is magic, then whats that say?

Or if I ask you how matter is both wave and particle - and you answer I don't know, it just is - then you have no answer except the miracle.

Or if I ask you where did the universe come from and you tell me a condensed point - but that it also occurred everywhere at the same time - we can assume it was magic - since no such thing is ever observed to occur?

Funny how some want to claim science while still using miracles.

Click to expand...

The only funny thing here is how you are implying that arguments from ignorance are good arguments.

Davian said:

For Michael:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthr...tand-Black-Body-Radiation&p=654354#post654354

For Justa:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?155398-Expansion-Of-Space

And the entry on Urban Dictionary inspired by them:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Death+by+Mod

Click to expand...

That was one of the funiest reads in a while.

The Cadet said:

There are two parts to that statement - that miracles are somehow equivalent to magic, and that they are useless in a scientific discussion.

Click to expand...

It is interesting that when you get down to it--especially from an historical vantage point--magic has much more to do with science than religion. There was a good article on this, but I can't remember who wrote it (I thought it was C.S. Lewis). Feser's blog touches on it slightly, but Rossi's book, Francis Bacon: From Magic to Science traces the historical developments. The scientists loved magic; the Church outlawed it.

zippy2006 said:

It is interesting that when you get down to it--especially from an historical vantage point--magic has much more to do with science than religion. There was a good article on this, but I can't remember who wrote it (I thought it was C.S. Lewis). Feser's blog touches on it slightly, but Rossi's book, Francis Bacon: From Magic to Science traces the historical developments. The scientists loved magic; the Church outlawed it.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I very much see the average practicing believer as attempting to do something akin to "magic":

* Many seem to behave as though simply reading or speaking a scripture out-loud will have power and effect, and that the right combinations of scriptures can have an even more powerful effect. I don't see how this is much different from attempting to speak or cast spells.
* Saying prayers a certain way, invoking spirits, repeating certain things in prayers over and over and over again ... again, seems like chanting, evocation, incantations, attempting to charm or hex, etc.
* Some of the more pentecostal and charismatic branches look very much like attempting trance like states to me ("slain in the spirit"), etc.
* The consistent focus of "accepting Jesus into your heart", or "let the spirit control your mind and thoughts" or "let God in," etc ... reminds me of spirit possession.

I see many parallels between modern Christianity and what a laymen may consider attempts at "magic". I am not well versed in the types of magic which serious practitioners may reference, which is why I say "laymen". However I would point out that even the Christian scriptures themselves have drawn such parallels ... consider the narrative of Moses and the miracles he performed in Egypt. Some of those same miracles were not impressive to the Egyptians, because the magicians could duplicate them.

Davian said:

For Michael:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthr...tand-Black-Body-Radiation&p=654354#post654354

For Justa:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?155398-Expansion-Of-Space

And the entry on Urban Dictionary inspired by them:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Death+by+Mod

Click to expand...

I felt guilty reading those. Like rubbernecking a car crash. But I couldn't resist reading more.