Methodist churches on abortion

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

The Wesleyan Church

We believe that abortion is the taking of human life; therefore, society brings grave danger to itself by permitting abortion on demand, and thus treating God-given life so lightly. We call our members to oppose this social evil with great vigor. However, we reject the use of violence as a means of bringing about this needed change in society. Except in the case of risk to the life of the mother, The Wesleyan Church stands firm against the evil of abortion—both the personal evil of abortion by any individual among us and the worldwide social evil of abortion, which we believe must someday end. Until that day, we will instruct our people to avoid this sin personally, and call them to the work of enlightening a blind culture, as we once did with the sin of slavery (1996 General Conference).

Sanctity of life - The Wesleyan Church

Yip. Sounds Christian to me.

United Methodist Church

Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.
But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother
and the unborn child. (...) Maybe you will agree with the denomination's position. On the other hand, you may disagree. Either is all right.

What is the United Methodist position on abortion? | The United Methodist Church

Hmm... reluctant to approve? Equally bound to the well-being of the mother? Maybe you agree, maybe you disagree - it's all OK? Something doesn't seem entirely right here.

The Methodist Church

The Methodist Conference Statement of 1976 states that the human fetus has an inviolable right to life and that abortion should never be seen as an alternative to contraception. Yet it also recognises that the fetus is totally dependent on the mother for at least the first twenty weeks of its life and that the mother has a total right to decide whether or not to continue the pregnancy.

The 1976 statement gives examples of circumstances in which termination of the pregnancy may be seen as necessary. These include situations where the embryo is severely disabled or is the result of rape, where the mental or physical health of the mother is at risk, and where the right of the unborn child to be healthy and wanted may not be met.

Abortion and contraception

A "total right" to kill the baby up to 5 month of pregnancy? Where the right of the child to be wanted may not be met? What???

How on earth can churches coming from the very same Wesleyan tradition present such different views on murdering unborn babies (from vehement opposition to almost outright affirmation of abortion on demand)?

I read sermons by John Wesley and books on Methodist theology, and I was so moved by the beautiful methodist vision of Christianity that I considered converting to KEM (Kościoł Ewangelicko-Metodystyczny - Polish branch of UMC) but now I have serious doubts. The only Wesleyan Church parish in Poland is about 600km from where I live, so it wouldn't make sense to join them. Anyway, I really can't understand such differences between wesleyan churches - the mind boggles.

Radagast · Jun 11, 2020

Balticus said:
I read sermons by John Wesley and books on Methodist theology, and I was so moved by the beautiful methodist vision of Christianity that I considered converting to KEM (Kościoł Ewangelicko-Metodystyczny - Polish branch of UMC) but now I have serious doubts. The only Wesleyan Church parish in Poland is about 600km from where I live, so it wouldn't make sense to join them. Anyway, I really can't understand such differences between wesleyan churches - the mind boggles.

Be aware that the UMC is likely to split, probably next year: Methodists Agree on Compromise to Split Denomination

The KEM will probably be on the conservative side of the divide. It does seem to have some support for abortion, however: Nauczanie społeczne – Kościół Ewangelicko-Metodystyczny w RP

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

Radagast said:
The KEM will probably be on the conservative side of the divide.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Radagast said:
It does seem to have some support for abortion, however: Nauczanie społeczne – Kościół Ewangelicko-Metodystyczny w RP

Yes, I am aware of that and I simply cannot accept the ambiguity in teaching on this matter. That's why the only viable option for me would seem to be EKM (Ewangeliczny Kościół Metodystyczny - The Wesleyan Church branch), but the distance to their only parish in Poland is a bit overwhelming.

Ronit · Jun 11, 2020

Do you have churches that only teach from the Bible Balticus? Or Home churches or via Internet?
I will pray for you
Blessings
Ronit

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

Thank you, Ronit. Yes, we have various Bible churches in Poland, but I am really drawn to the teachings of John Wesley and his vision of what Christianity should be like. I wrote to EKM about their expansion plans, maybe they will open a parish somewhere in the north of Poland, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In any case, I'll just pray and see where the Lord will lead me - I have full confidence in His guidance.

Radagast · Jun 11, 2020

Balticus said:
Thank you, Ronit. Yes, we have various Bible churches in Poland, but I am really drawn to the teachings of John Wesley and his vision of what Christianity should be like. I wrote to EKM about their expansion plans, maybe they will open a parish somewhere in the north of Poland, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In any case, I'll just pray and see where the Lord will lead me - I have full confidence in His guidance.

Are these people any good? Gospel Church Gdansk

seeking.IAM · Jun 11, 2020

What national church governing bodies believe may often be different than the prevailing view in any particular congregation or among any particular group of congregants. By deciding one cannot agree with an ecclesiastical body platform statement, one might be missing out on a worship opportunity nearby with people who believe and practice as he or she does. I think it's always best to go and see. That church up the road might be the one you are looking for.

I've never been part of a denomination of which I've agreed on every point. I rather doubt they exist. An advantage in this regard of a home church or a non-denominational church is that there is no larger body outside of themselves making issue statements of belief for them. That hasn't been my cup of tea though for other reasons, though. Best wishes.

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

Radagast said:
Are these people any good? Gospel Church Gdansk

Thank you, I will definitely check them out.

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

seeking.IAM said:
What national church governing bodies believe may often be different than the prevailing view in any particular congregation or among any particular group of congregants.

I would find it rather difficult to be a part of a church whose official stance on abortion is similar to that of the Methodist Church in the UK or even UMC. In such a fundamental question it is not a difference of opinion, it is a difference of morality and of the very idea what Christianity stands for.

seeking.IAM said:
I've never been part of a denomination of which I've agreed on every point.

I used to think that I was, as a Roman-Catholic, but not anymore.

bekkilyn · Jun 11, 2020

One of the reasons I chose the UMC over other denominations back in the day is because of it's stance on the abortion topic. I wouldn't have otherwise given it a second glance because men making medical decisions for women was on my small list of dealbreakers when denomination-shopping and was a factor that contributed to whether or not I even returned to organized religion at all.

With that said, there is no requirement that a layperson observe or believe every social principle of the organization. There are people in the UMC whose personal beliefs on the topic range across the entire spectrum.

Balticus · Jun 11, 2020

bekkilyn said:
men making medical decisions for women was on my small list of dealbreakers when denomination-shopping

When the life of mother is endangered, then (and only then) we can talk about a "medical decision" whether to perform the abortion or not; and in such case I find it completely irrelevant if the doctor responisble for the decision is a man or a woman.

I hope that you had such situation in mind, and not abortion on demand, when you wrote about making a "medical decision".

bekkilyn · Jun 11, 2020

Balticus said:
When the life of mother is endangered, then (and only then) we can talk about a "medical decision" whether to perform the abortion or not; and in such case I find it completely irrelevant if the doctor responisble for the decision is a man or a woman.

I hope that you had such situation in mind, and not abortion on demand, when you wrote about making a "medical decision".

We'll never know in this thread, will we?

Ronit · Jun 11, 2020

Balticus said:
Thank you, Ronit. Yes, we have various Bible churches in Poland, but I am really drawn to the teachings of John Wesley and his vision of what Christianity should be like. I wrote to EKM about their expansion plans, maybe they will open a parish somewhere in the north of Poland, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In any case, I'll just pray and see where the Lord will lead me - I have full confidence in His guidance.

Best Wishes
Ronit

Methodized · Jun 13, 2020

Balticus said:
I wouldn't be so sure.

Yes, I am aware of that and I simply cannot accept the ambiguity in teaching on this matter. That's why the only viable option for me would seem to be EKM (Ewangeliczny Kościół Metodystyczny - The Wesleyan Church branch), but the distance to their only parish in Poland is a bit overwhelming.

There is ambiguity for at least two reasons. First, different Methodist and Wesleyan denominations make their own decisions on their own doctrinal positions. We may descend from the same John Wesley, but we do not all come out at the same place with interpretation either to Welsey's views of our views of scripture.

Second, Wesleyan theology has a strong view (particularly among United Methodists) that we agree on the essentials of our faith and that other views are up to the individual. As the early church or the scripture has no stated view on abortion, a particular view is not considered an essential to the faith.

You may hold beliefs that make it essential to your faith. But it isn't essential to the Christian faith as a whole or to Wesleyan Christianity as a whole.

Balticus · Jun 13, 2020

@Methodized

Thank you for the explanation above. I suppose it does make some sense if you put it this way. There probably are some people who do not consider the topic in question to be essential to their faith. Fair enough.

But still...

I was always under the impression that Christianity is about love and protection for the weakest (and who could possibly be weaker than an unborn baby in its mother's womb?), not about survival of the fittest. Because that's what it essentially boils down to, isn't it? Salvation for the weak or survival of the strong. How does one reconcile the latter with Christianity is still somewhat unclear to me.

So, basically what you're saying is that members of UMC can hold radically different beliefs on abortion and still be a part of the church? OK, fair enough. I come from Roman Catholic background, so I suppose I am more used to larger extent of uniformity in views between church members, but who knows... maybe your approach is better.

Rawtheran · Jul 9, 2020

Balticus said:
The Wesleyan Church

Sanctity of life - The Wesleyan Church

Yip. Sounds Christian to me.

United Methodist Church

What is the United Methodist position on abortion? | The United Methodist Church

Hmm... reluctant to approve? Equally bound to the well-being of the mother? Maybe you agree, maybe you disagree - it's all OK? Something doesn't seem entirely right here.

The Methodist Church

Abortion and contraception

A "total right" to kill the baby up to 5 month of pregnancy? Where the right of the child to be wanted may not be met? What???

How on earth can churches coming from the very same Wesleyan tradition present such different views on murdering unborn babies (from vehement opposition to almost outright affirmation of abortion on demand)?

I read sermons by John Wesley and books on Methodist theology, and I was so moved by the beautiful methodist vision of Christianity that I considered converting to KEM (Kościoł Ewangelicko-Metodystyczny - Polish branch of UMC) but now I have serious doubts. The only Wesleyan Church parish in Poland is about 600km from where I live, so it wouldn't make sense to join them. Anyway, I really can't understand such differences between wesleyan churches - the mind boggles.

Balticus, have you ever heard of Lifewatch? They are a Pro-Life group within the United Methodist Church. Also the majority of UMCers that I've met are Pro-Life in general. Also the UMC does not believe in funding or giving financial support to abortion clinics.

Lord Vega · Jul 30, 2020

Abortion is taking a human life; it is an abomination.

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