Messianic symbol of our faith here on these forums

iitb · Oct 13, 2003

Henaynei said:
having an half dozen from qhich to choose for each denomination would invalidate the purpose

Not to mention confusing the bejeebus out of those who don't know much about other groups.

SonWorshipper · Oct 13, 2003

Henaynei said:
Anything Jewish without a cross.
But we need to go beyond Jewish as we have other Non- believing Jews that are members of this site and we shouldn't make them feel that it is deceiving in any way or alienating.

Another suggestion would be the fish with a menorah inside.
I have never seen this, do you have a picture? I also think this would not be distinquishable in a small size?

LOL - what I have on my car: fish with "Gefilte" inside.
Many Christians are offended by this and think that this is a Jewish put down of the Christian faith so I don't think that will fly here.

While the menorah/star/fish is ok - it is not going to be recognizable taken down to the "smilie" size needed to add under the name along with flag, sex, mood, etc.

I think that I can test that in a different color of the two parts that might work.

Neither would my avitar, the Shema Mobius Strip, but I think it is a great MJ symbol!! LOL

Maybe the greatest service the CF denominational icon would serve is that running the cursor over it should bring up the name of the denomination and clicking it should take you to that forum.
This is a great Idea , so as to avoid confusion as well as enlighten to those that don't know the meaning which we will never be able to find one symbol that everyone will recognize.

SonWorshipper · Oct 13, 2003

simchat_torah said:
why must one necessarily include a 'messianic' attachment to a jewish symbol?

what's wrong with just the mogan david?

Well I can see from your POV Yafet, the reasoning, but as a whole of MJ it is Jews AND Gentiles that make up the movement and a plain MD would not represent that. The reason I say that is because the MD is the symbol as well on the Israeli flag and that is for a nation that is ( it saddens me greatly to say) atheistic, or agnostic for the most part. I think that the MD should be reserved for those on this board who are Jewish by blood and belief but without Yeshua. So that would be our "base" to add to if you will, of our symbol showing a difference.

SonWorshipper · Oct 13, 2003

OK, now I have read the rest of the posts ( should have done that before) and I see Yafet that you were thinking in this forum only, but as the others have said it is for basic use in the other forums so you know from which perspective, or which "doctrines" if I may, are being spoken from.

I have been mulling this over and think that perhaps something that says both our beliefs AND how we practice them is the name of the L-rd itself, Y'shua. Perhaps this should be used?

Or maybe perhaps another distinction, TORAH, we could use tablets to represent our beliefs and practices? Something like this but smaller of course

I think this would distinguish us from other forms of Judaism, as well as Christianity.

See also what I have attached, I "modified" the seal.

Henaynei · Oct 13, 2003

I still think the Menorah (with it's Messianic significance) for the MJs and the Magen Dovid for the non-Messianic Jews is the most straight forward and simpilist solution. And the most workable in terms of size and recongnizability concerns.

iitb · Oct 14, 2003

Well, we ended up with a Mogan David with a cross next to it. <----

KelsayDL · Oct 14, 2003

iitb · Oct 14, 2003

However, based on the icon's size, I would think that the "Messianic Seal" is out. I doubt you'd be able to tell what it is.

KelsayDL · Oct 14, 2003

Menorah.

SonWorshipper · Oct 14, 2003

I don't like this one bit. To me ( now this is my own opinion) but the cross is something that most Jews stear clear of, to me it denotes a Hebrew Christian and that is not the same as a Messianic believer. I think the symbol that was picked tells a lie for those who use it as being Messianic when it denotes a Hebrew christian, Catholic, protestant, etc.

What of the Tablets? As I said that stands for what we follow, the mitzvot.

KelsayDL · Oct 14, 2003

Thats pretty much my opinion SW.

While I don't despise the cross as a symbol of faith, I don't like it's application as a symbol of the Messianic faith.

For the reasons you stated.

SonWorshipper · Oct 14, 2003

Pray4Isrel said:
Keep in mind, you are not obligated to have an icon yet, so for the sake of keeping peace and being patient while he changes the icon, you may not want to select "Other Religion". He did not do this out of spite. And have any of you PM'd him a PM to explain your feelings? Until you do that, I recommend taking the "Other Religion" symbol away.

C'mon folks, let's be fair.

Once again, Erwin set this up using his own options. It can be changed. No one here is at fault. Consider it a rough draft that can be changed.

I understood this the first time, no need to condesend now. I didn't think I was blaming anyone, if what I said was taken that way I apologize, I was just airing my view as I thought all were welcome to do.

However I feel that you are addressing me here (as I am the only one that just chose the other religion to see what it looked like) as I am trying to cause unrest by doing so?

so for the sake of keeping peace and being patient while he changes the icon, you may not want to select "Other Religion"

Until you do that, I recommend taking the "Other Religion" symbol away.

C'mon folks, let's be fair.

My take on the post he started was that it was optional to choose whatever we wanted that reflected our beliefs, since this doesn't seem to be the case I will not be displaying anything.

Sorry for the unrest caused.

SonWorshipper · Oct 14, 2003

I just need to say one more thing. I have just reviewed all the symbols ( except the agnostic, atheist) and have found that they are ALL CROSSES, in one form or another. In order to review them I have had to go into my profile and select each one and then see what appeared, this is why I had the other religion at first, which BTW is the only one that after reviewing the others that I feel represents the closest to my beliefs. The symbol Erwin chose for other relgion is a symbol that I have known to mean "THE WAY", of which Yeshua's followers were called, not Christians, they were followers of THE WAY.

The cross is a symbol of Christianity, to me being Messianic is to deny that way of practicing my faith in doing what the L-rd continued instead of what man instituted. By using the cross as well just attached to the Magen David to me just indicates another branch of Christianity, of which I do not believe I am in, nor do I believe that Messianic Judaism is part of.

Perhaps Erwin can conbine the "THE WAY" symbol with the Magen David sans cross and that will be a good rep of MJ?

SonWorshipper · Oct 14, 2003

ServingHim · Oct 14, 2003

Pray4Isrel said:
True, so we are left with the Magen David or a Menorah...

I vote for menorah

simchat_torah · Oct 14, 2003

i agree with henaynei

Henaynei · Oct 14, 2003

Please - just about anything but without the cross.

I am sure Erwin is not aware of the depth of issues in the Jewish mind regarding the "symbol" of cross, of the issues of MJ'ism being associated with that "symbol."

And perhaps he was not remembering the non-Messianic Jews who forum here

iitb · Oct 14, 2003

Okay, here's my assessment of the situation:

1) The cross needs to go.
2) The symbol should probably be something distinctly Jewish.

So, our choices seem to be: Magen David, Menorah, or tablets. Lets pick one.

Henaynei · Oct 14, 2003

Menorah

And sorry about the multiple posts - really NOT trying to be trying just having trouble getting what I post to show for me and thought it did not post

iitb · Oct 14, 2003

If you want, I can delete your extra posts.

Messianic symbol of our faith here on these forums

What symbol represents MJ? Please read the 1st post BEFORE casting your vote.

Magen David with Cross

Magen David with Fish

Menorah, Star & Fish - the "Messianic Seal"

Other - Please post below with picture or discription

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