Message shocks youths

austrianfoster · Aug 13, 2007

i agree with most of you in that it was great. i'm doing my best to spread that exact message as far and wide as i can among my college group.

the function of it was not to teach, but to break us away from our blind indifference. and at that it did extremely well.

~cf

xThirst4Godx · Aug 13, 2007

WOW!! This was so bittersweet. it was like he was talking TO ME! Praise Jesus. im so scared and so happy all at once right now. [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], Jesus is amazing!

chris777 · Aug 14, 2007

he4rty said:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52906154239

Heres and audio link and download to it if that helps, just click later when directed to next page and accept cookies.

thanks I was just about to ask i have a road trip tomorrow and I wanted to hear it,

No wait thanks for the link to that site period

A Brother In Christ · Aug 14, 2007

Matt 7:13-23 these are unbelivers who never knew God

1 cor 3:12-15 love this for believers ... still saved

this guy is stating works save ... yet titus 3:5, eph 2:8, romans 4:5, 2 tim 1:9, heb 4:3

1 cor 15:2 ...........unless you believe in vain.

romans 9:31-32 ...10:1-3

faith ... defined is heb 11:1

all believers sin ... the reason for 1 john 1:8-10

1

prgallo · Aug 14, 2007

A Brother In Christ said:
Matt 7:13-23 these are unbelivers who never knew God

1 cor 3:12-15 love this for believers ... still saved

this guy is stating works save ... yet titus 3:5, eph 2:8, romans 4:5, 2 tim 1:9, heb 4:3

1 cor 15:2 ...........unless you believe in vain.

romans 9:31-32 ...10:1-3

faith ... defined is heb 11:1

all believers sin ... the reason for 1 john 1:8-10

1

Well said.

He's very legalistic, but done in a way that draws people into his position.

WarEagle · Aug 14, 2007

prgallo said:
Well said.

He's very legalistic, but done in a way that draws people into his position.

How is he legalistic? Do you mean legalistic in the sense that it's used in the Bible, or do you mean it in the modern sense of "he's pointing out something that the Holy Spirit is convicting me about. Therefore, he's legalistic"?

Biblically, the phrase means to require someone to adhere to the law for salvation. Could you please show where he's done that?

I've got to be honest with you, I've got at least a dozen of his messages on my ipod and I've never heard him preach legalism in the least. Just the opposite, in fact, he preaches that there are no works we can do to add to our salvation.

chris777 · Aug 14, 2007

WarEagle said:
How is he legalistic? Do you mean legalistic in the sense that it's used in the Bible, or do you mean it in the modern sense of "he's pointing out something that the Holy Spirit is convicting me about. Therefore, he's legalistic"?

Biblically, the phrase means to require someone to adhere to the law for salvation. Could you please show where he's done that?

I've got to be honest with you, I've got at least a dozen of his messages on my ipod and I've never heard him preach legalism in the least. Just the opposite, in fact, he preaches that there are no works we can do to add to our salvation.

I have got to learn how to use an equalizer, I liked what I have listened to so far, other than the pitch of his voice hurts my ears, at least in the car, so I kept having to tweak it constantly.

I would like to hear a real sermon and not some lecture though, But so far so Good.
Its comforting to finally hear someone else who sees things similarly.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 14, 2007

WarEagle said:
How is he legalistic? Do you mean legalistic in the sense that it's used in the Bible, or do you mean it in the modern sense of "he's pointing out something that the Holy Spirit is convicting me about. Therefore, he's legalistic"?

Biblically, the phrase means to require someone to adhere to the law for salvation. Could you please show where he's done that?

I've got to be honest with you, I've got at least a dozen of his messages on my ipod and I've never heard him preach legalism in the least. Just the opposite, in fact, he preaches that there are no works we can do to add to our salvation.

we are not taught by law... 1 tim 1:7-10 NO NO

we are to learn by grace .. 2 peter 3:18 this is what you can do

xThirst4Godx · Aug 15, 2007

this message was fantastic! hard to swallow, and may leave much to be desired in the realm of the deeds vs. faith controversy, but still an amazing message that the youth NEED to hear.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 15, 2007

xThirst4Godx said:
this message was fantastic! hard to swallow, and may leave much to be desired in the realm of the deeds vs. faith controversy, but still an amazing message that the youth NEED to hear.

A Brother In Christ said:
we are not taught by law... 1 tim 1:7-10 NO NO

we are to learn by grace .. 2 peter 3:18 this is what you can do

so do you kill you friend who persades you to do sin like in duet 13:6-9 like the law says or do you just quit hanging out together

WarEagle · Aug 19, 2007

A Brother In Christ said:
we are not taught by law... 1 tim 1:7-10 NO NO

we are to learn by grace .. 2 peter 3:18 this is what you can do

Please see Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 7.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 22, 2007

WarEagle said:
Please see Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 7.

HOW ABOUT

ROMANS 8 tHERE IS THEREFORE NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS

WarEagle · Aug 22, 2007

A Brother In Christ said:
HOW ABOUT

ROMANS 8 tHERE IS THEREFORE NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS

And would you care to quote the rest of the passage, or are you content just to have that portion of one verse, taken out of context?

IisJustMe · Aug 22, 2007

WarEagle said:
And would you care to quote the rest of the passage, or are you content just to have that portion of one verse, taken out of context?

The KJV has it wrong. Among all the accepted "TR" manuscripts, only one has your "rest of the verse" in the original Greek. Why it was allowed to get into the KJV is beyond me. It violated every translational rule Erasmus, Stephanus and Beza established at the beginning over their effort. Your "rest of the verse" is an obvious copying error in which verse four was transcribed into verse one. It should have been edited out of the KJV long ago.

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Aug 23, 2007

IisJustMe said:
The KJV has it wrong. Among all the accepted "TR" manuscripts, only one has your "rest of the verse" in the original Greek. Why it was allowed to get into the KJV is beyond me. It violated every translational rule Erasmus, Stephanus and Beza established at the beginning over their effort. Your "rest of the verse" is an obvious copying error in which verse four was transcribed into verse one. It should have been edited out of the KJV long ago.

The rest of the verse is there in the majority of the manuscripts. All because a small handful of old manuscripts found around the same location of each other don't have the rest of the verse doesn't mean it isn't legit. I believe the majority of manuscripts which are more spread out got it right.

EMTV (English Majority Text Version)

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Byzantine Greek

Romans 8:1
ουδεν αρα νυν κατακριμα τοις εν χριστω ιησου μη κατα σαρκα περιπατουσιν αλλα κατα πνευμα

This, my friends, is why I do believe the Bible version debate is so important. All Bibles are not the same.

A Brother In Christ · Aug 23, 2007

John 3:18

IisJustMe · Aug 23, 2007

Project 86 said:
The rest of the verse is there in the majority of the manuscripts.

It is in the majority of the 400 manuscripts Erasmus et al used (which is what I meant to say ... it is in more than one manuscript but they are all in one family) but not in the majority of the 5,000 known manuscripts. Fewer than 10%. So my original statement was slightly in error, but the quote from your post is completely erroneous.

DanC922 · Aug 24, 2007

You are completely missing his point in the first place. He never said we are saved by works. He said we are saved by believing and repentance. That is what the Bible says. He said that you will KNOW you are saved by your fruit. He did not say you are saved BY your fruit. Salvation is an issue of the heart. Like Paul Washer said, if we come into personal contact with anything as extraordinarily magnificent as God, we can't NOT be changed. If we are saved, we are changed. He did not say we are saved if we change. Yes, we will still sin, but salvation is about a HEART change, and we will constantly be striving for righteousness rather than being resigned and careless about our sin.

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Aug 24, 2007

IisJustMe said:
It is in the majority of the 400 manuscripts Erasmus et al used (which is what I meant to say ... it is in more than one manuscript but they are all in one family) but not in the majority of the 5,000 known manuscripts. Fewer than 10%. So my original statement was slightly in error, but the quote from your post is completely erroneous.

That is untrue. It is in most of the manuscripts. The only way you'll convince me is with some good evidence otherwise. Of course I don't want to sidetrack this thread so if you want we can take it to PM or maybe to another thread. The only reason I posted is to correct the statement you made.

IisJustMe · Aug 24, 2007

Project 86 said:
That is untrue. It is in most of the manuscripts.

"No, it's not" ?? And we go back and forth like a couple kindergartners for the life of the thread? I'm not going to do that.

KJV Only adherents believe a lot of wrong things about the extant manuscripts, and you are apparently going to believe that Romans 8:1 originally contained wording that is actually part of v. 4 and was never part of v.1. Go ahead and believe that, if you wish. But the truth is evident for anyone who wants to investigate for themselves.

Project 86 said:
The only way you'll convince me is with some good evidence otherwise.

And short of hauling the manuscripts to your house, how would you like me to do that? Investigate it for yourself, and stop relying on the wishful thinking of a group of pseudoscholars who cling to error for the sake of ego and being "right."

Message shocks youths

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