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Conservatives need a perfect, inerrant Bible. Liberals are more willing to recognize the authors were doing their best to communicate profound ideas given the language and symbols of their day.
I've been in some very conservative Christian circles in the past. I finally realised we were going round in circles. No matter what happened, what evidence or scripture to the contrary was presented we had to believe A,B,C.
I dont think I can be close-minded and be a Christian. There is so much more to learn, so much new ground to explore. As God said 'Come let us reason together'.
Why would God give us the capacity to reason and have a dialogue with him, if he didnt want us to use it?
I've noticed that indeed the biggest difference between conservatives in liberals is the manner in which the express their beliefs, rather than their actualy beliefs. I've noticed in tis sub-forum that people's beliefs can vary quite a bit in different areas, but people are willing to listen to each other's point of view and are maybe willing to consider it against their own. And people might still disagree, and they may say why the disagree, but they don't insist that they are absolutely right, and that the other person is absolutely wrong.
But every once in a while, you'll see a contribution to a thread from a more conservative poster, and the difference in attitudes is shocking. It'll be like "No, the bible says this, threfore you must believe my interperetation of this, are you choosing to ignore this verse? Are you picking and choosing what you believe" blah blah blah and it's very hostile and confrontational. That's the very attitude that eventually turned me away from the church. I'm only recently looking into returning to Christianity because I'm discovering for the first time that Christians aren't all like that, and there are open-minded, polite, liberal; Christians out there!
I used to think that this was a fair way to describe liberals and conservatives. However, the more of both that I meet, the more I realize that this is just not a fair generalization. There are obnoxious liberals who berate anyone who disagrees with them. There are gentle, tolerant, and compassionate liberals who accept and consider the viewpoints of others. There are obnoxious conservatives who insist that anyone who disagrees with them are wrong. And, there are gentle conservatives who will quietly respect your right to disagree with them and will accept and love you nonetheless.
My experience on these forums have shown me the most intolerant obnoxious and hateful people are about evenly divided between liberal and conservative. I would say the same, perhaps giving a very slight advantage to liberals, about the tolerant and accepting people I have run across. The difference, imo, really does come down to viewpoint, not attitudes. But, that's just one opinion.
Hmm, perhaps I have a lot to learn!
I used to think that this was a fair way to describe liberals and conservatives. However, the more of both that I meet, the more I realize that this is just not a fair generalization. There are obnoxious liberals who berate anyone who disagrees with them. There are gentle, tolerant, and compassionate liberals who accept and consider the viewpoints of others. There are obnoxious conservatives who insist that anyone who disagrees with them are wrong. And, there are gentle conservatives who will quietly respect your right to disagree with them and will accept and love you nonetheless.
My experience on these forums have shown me the most intolerant obnoxious and hateful people are about evenly divided between liberal and conservative. I would say the same, perhaps giving a very slight advantage to liberals, about the tolerant and accepting people I have run across. The difference, imo, really does come down to viewpoint, not attitudes. But, that's just one opinion.
Arguably those people who aren't open to others beliefs aren't liberal... by definition conservative and liberal have those differences that were identified, that liberals are open to new and different ideas while conservatives conserve and hold on to existing and current ones.
Someone who doesn't have orthodox Christian views is not necessarily a liberal, they can be conservative to their new beliefs.
Arguably those people who aren't open to others beliefs aren't liberal... by definition conservative and liberal have those differences that were identified, that liberals are open to new and different ideas while conservatives conserve and hold on to existing and current ones.
Someone who doesn't have orthodox Christian views is not necessarily a liberal, they can be conservative to their new beliefs.
Let's say that person A says to person B, "I believe that marriage is intended for one man and one woman and that active homosexuality is sinful." Person B responds, "how can you believe that?!?!? You are an intolerant jerk for saying such a thing!" Person A then responds, "I respect your right to disagree, and I respect that other people have differing viewpoints on the issue, which I am willing to consider, but this is what I believe."
By your definition, would A be the liberal and B the conservative?
It depends on what you mean by "liberal" in this situation. As far as tolerance of other's viewpoints goes, person A is the more liberal. As far as interperetation of scripture goes, person B is possibly the more liberal one.
In common usage of "liberal" and "conservative", Person B is the liberal. As someone who tends liberal, however, I would much rather discuss any important issue with person A, who, in this example is the more open minded tolerant one. I have seen this type of situation play out both ways. Some of the nastiest most intolerant comments that I have seen on CF have been from people advocating a liberal viewpoint. But, I see nastiness on the other side as well. Like I said, it seems to be about 50/50. And, there are quite a few liberals and conservatives who like to accuse the other side of being horribly intolerant.
Let's say that person A says to person B, "I believe that marriage is intended for one man and one woman and that active homosexuality is sinful." Person B responds, "how can you believe that?!?!? You are an intolerant jerk for saying such a thing!" Person A then responds, "I respect your right to disagree, and I respect that other people have differing viewpoints on the issue, which I am willing to consider, but this is what I believe."
By your definition, would A be the liberal and B the conservative?
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
Well since words do have definitions let me share the first definition for both liberal and conservative on dictionary.com and use that as a standard to figure it out:
liberal
conservative
So instead of coming in with a definition bias to the words and by looking at who says what and trying to -then- use the terms appropriately... person A doesn't represent a favor towards progress or reform, but doesn't reference a distaste to it, in being tolerant and believing people can have their own beliefs even if they are change or reformed suggests a slight leaning towards liberal... they do express some of what it means to be "conservative" and are disposed towards existing and/or traditional conditions though they are not trying to "limit change."
Person B seems to be "favorable to progress or reform" in a liberal perspective; however, this may be a misnomer since just because those same beliefs may be liberal to one person they may not be to another since that person may be trying to hold and conserve their own set of ideals and not be open to reform. On the other hand they are very much trying to "limit change." They are stuck in their own way of believing things and aren't very willing (at all) to consider a change to that thought... Change can be forward or backwards, it's when it's done for "tradition" sake it's conservative, while someone who wants to change towards an older way for other reasons may actually be quite liberal.
This is where a simpler definition of conservative and liberal makes it a lot easier:
Liberal - Embraces progressive or reforming conditions
Conservative - Chooses to preserve existing or traditional conditions
The actual conditions are not part of the definition. For example the condition of supporting gay marriage is not liberal, how a person holds to that condition can be liberal or it can in fact be conservative. Once a person becomes completely intolerant of someone else's ability to come to their own conclusion they cease being liberal (progressive and reforming, implicitly that means open to change) and starts to become conservative to their set of conditions.
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