Matthew 24:31

Iosias · Sep 9, 2004

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you agree that "elect" here refers to the remenant of Israelthat passes through the Great Tribulation?

thereselittleflower · Sep 9, 2004

No . ..

Peace in Him!

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 11, 2004

AV1611 said:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you agree that "elect" here refers to the remenant of Israelthat passes through the Great Tribulation?

when does vs 29 happen ...

since the Church is with Christ before the trib

Yes the elect are the 144,000 jews

In Christ Forever · Sep 11, 2004

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
when does vs 29 happen ...

since the Church is with Christ before the trib

Yes the elect are the 144,000 jews

No they are not just jews! There are 12 tribes, not just the House of Judah[jews] House of Israel hebrews/gentiles
Anyway, I don't see how the church can be in "heaven" because according to revelation, it shows Christ reaping or gathering the elect, then the angels gathering the grapes of the vine and throwing them in the great winepress of God's wrath

The "elect" being reaped?
reve 14 14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat [One] like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

the furnace of fire is on Earth, and appears to be the same as the lake of fire in revelation but the righteous are still on earth!.

37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked [one.] 39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire.
There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

John 8:44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth,

reve 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Uzziah · Sep 11, 2004

Matthew 24:31

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you agree that "elect" here refers to the remenant of Israelthat passes through the Great Tribulation?

Yes, there is a parallel verse which af course speaks of the same thing.

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

During the tribulation there will be the "Jewish remnant", but there will be others of "Judah" and "Israel" that will not be part of that initial believing "Jewish remnant", they will be gathered out from among the nations as well.

Regards
U

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 11, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
No they are not just jews! There are 12 tribes, not just the House of Judah[jews] House of Israel hebrews/gentiles
Anyway, I don't see how the church can be in "heaven" because according to revelation, it shows Christ reaping or gathering the elect, then the angels gathering the grapes of the vine and throwing them in the great winepress of God's wrath

.

1 cor 15:23 But every man in his own order[squad]: Christ the first fruit[first group] afterward they that are Christ's [possessions/ 2nd group] at His coming

romans 8:23 and not only they, but ourselves also,which have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for sonship, to wit, the redemption of our body

why is this we are IN CHRIST BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ....1 cor 12:12-13

positional not reality...... yet

James1979 · Sep 11, 2004

The elect is referring to all who God has chosen before the foundation of the world.

Terral · Sep 11, 2004

Hi Av16:11:

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Av1611 >> Do you agree that "elect" here refers to the remnant of Israel that passes through the Great Tribulation?

Yes. Your question is answered in the verses just above this one:

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short . . . But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Matt. 24:21-31

But, do you believe Paul is talking about the same gathering here:

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1Thes. 4:13-17.

Or, are these two separate events?

God bless,

Terral

Iosias · Sep 13, 2004

Terral...I suppose my question should have been phrased thus: Do you agree as I do that "elect" here refers to the remenant of Israelthat passes through the Great Tribulation?

I agree that it is because that is the only view that makes any sense!

Terral · Sep 13, 2004

Hi Av:

You asked >> Terral...I suppose my question should have been phrased thus: Do you agree as I do that "elect" here refers to the remnant of Israel that passes through the Great Tribulation? I agree that it is because that is the only view that makes any sense!

I apologize if that question was not answered in my post above. Yes, absolutely. Christ is describing the end time events that occur at the end of the coming Messianic Kingdom in Matthew 24. He is quoting Daniel 11:31 and 12:11 regarding the abomination of desolation. Matt. 24:15. It is important to note that His elect are gathered from the four winds. Matt. 24:31. Christ had just said,

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matt. 24:14.

Therefore, we should expect that His elect includes everyone obedient to that gospel message in that day still upon the planet. By definition, they are members of the bride (John 3:29) and that includes every remaining member in the Kingdom Dispensation/Administration/Household.

And interesting observation can be made by carefully examining the question of the disciples to Christ about His coming. It is simply amazing to me that almost everyone wants to place Christ on the throne of David during the coming Kingdom period. That is truly quite impossible, when we consider the facts. Scripture says,

As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what {will be} the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matt. 24:3.

Christ had already told them that He would return at the end of the age. How then can He come before the Kingdom Period begins? Then we have Daniels testimony about the Messiah during this same period.

"So you are to know and discern {that} from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince {there will be} seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end {will come} with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. Daniel 9:25+26.

Who on earth can imagine that our Lord Jesus Christ would be cut off and have nothing from the appearance of the antichrist? What nonsense. Paul writes,

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; {that is,} the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders. 2Thes. 2:7-9.

All of the evidence indicates that our Lord Jesus Christ will return to set foot on this planet at the end of the age, (Matt. 24:3) and this antichrist will be slain by His very breath, and at His appearance. The Messiah of Daniel 9:25+26 above cannot be our Lord Jesus Christ. He is David from Ezekiel 34:23+24 and 37:24+25. That is in full agreement with Peters prophecy that heaven must receive Christ, until the restoration of ALL things.

And that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until {the} period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Acts 3:20+21.

What does the Lord say about David and his reign?

"My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons' sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. Ezek. 37:24+25.

David here is called the king and the prince. Can anyone call Christ our Lord the Prince of anything? No. He is the King of Kings! Therefore, Daniels Messiah the Prince is definitely not Jesus Christ. When the Lord God says forever, and makes a promise concerning David, what does that mean? Christs own words are that His kingdom is not of the world, and not even of this realm.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." John 18:36.

The words of Hebrews 1 and 2 depict Christ taking His heavenly throne, while David simultaneously takes his earthly throne. That is the only interpretation of all the facts that makes any sense at all. What are you thoughts?

God bless,

Terral

In Christ Forever · Sep 13, 2004

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Click to expand...

Yes, revelation does show both a harvesting of the elect sheep and the destruction of the "grapes" next. I can't wait to hear that trumpet!!!Glory to God in the Highest.

rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

reve 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat [One] like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 25, 2004

1 cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruit[1st group]; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end[another group] when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God

Matt 24:31 cannot be the Church since the church to the Jews were a Mystery that was not revealed they were looking for the kingdom !

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church

1 cor 15:51 Behold I will tell you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall all be changed.....not they

already used the 1 thes 4:16 ..trumpet of God vs rev trumpet of angels

what is a mystery ....something that is a first time learning about a new subject..

Daniel 12:1 they knew of the tribulation and after King David knew he would rule over the Jews ..... means resurrected ..

Dan 12:2 talks about the Great white throne Judgement which is after the KINGDOM they already

another resurection

question is what is this mystery that they did not know of?

5 resurections

1. Christ
2 the Church as the bride
3. two witness .......rev 11:11
4. OT and Tribulational saints .....rev 20:20-4-5
5. The dead in Spirit ..........rev 20:11-12

thereselittleflower · Sep 25, 2004

A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
1 cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruit[1st group]; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end[another group] when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God

Matt 24:31 cannot be the Church since the church to the Jews were a Mystery that was not revealed they were looking for the kingdom !

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church

1 cor 15:51 Behold I will tell you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall all be changed.....not they

already used the 1 thes 4:16 ..trumpet of God vs rev trumpet of angels

what is a mystery ....something that is a first time learning about a new subject..

Actually, the word "mystery' used in these passages though it carries the sense you are giving, it has to do with those who are withing verseus without the Christian faith.

It is not merely something that is leaned for the first time . . but something to be shared among Christians.

Here is the definition of 'mystery'

G3466

μυστήριον

mustērion

moos-tay'-ree-on

From a derivative of μύωmuō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

This was something that was "to be shut the mouth" over regarding to those outside the Christian faith . .

Daniel 12:1 they knew of the tribulation and after King David knew he would rule over the Jews ..... means resurrected ..

Dan 12:2 talks about the Great white throne Judgement which is after the KINGDOM they already

another resurection

question is what is this mystery that they did not know of?

5 resurections

1. Christ
2 the Church as the bride
3. two witness .......rev 11:11
4. OT and Tribulational saints .....rev 20:20-4-5
5. The dead in Spirit ..........rev 20:11-12

The mysteries are those Paul spoke of . . the mysteries of the Christian faith. What we believe. Our Confession of faith.

Here Paul gives a list:

1Ti 3:16 By common confession, the secret (mystery) of our godly worship is great:

In flesh was he revealed to sight,
Kept righteous by the Spirit's might,
Adored by angels singing.
To nations was he manifest,
Believing souls found peace and rest,
Our Lord in heaven reigning!

Here is the great mystery of our religion:

Christ came as a human.
The Spirit proved that he pleased God,
and he was seen by angels.
Christ was preached to the nations.
People in this world put their faith in him,
and he was taken up to glory.

Peace in Him!

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 25, 2004

12 pauline mysterys which are for the church

and if one does not understand these how does one live the christian life ?

not as well is the answer

Matthew 24:31

Senior Contributor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

In Christ Forever

Guest

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Senior Member

Senior Contributor

Senior Member

In Christ Forever

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency