• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Basically I personally adhere to a moral foundationalism.


This basically takes similiar form to the foundationalism most are aware of, epistemic foundationalism which involves truths or reasoning beggining with certain self-evident axioms- like sight sensation, sound sensation, the law of noncontradiction, and objectivism.


Only that instead of sensation of sight it proposes a sensation of good/bad and right/wrong.

Many moral systems are moral foundationalist in this sense.

Consider utilitarianism, it proposes that pleasure=right. But how do they argue for this? How do they know an organisms goal is to promote pain, and avoid pleasure?

The answer would be something like "it's obvious". But why is it obvious? I would say because the sensation itself along with its evaluation is self-evident.



Hence right or wrong in the general and moral sense become what I consider ethical data. This data takes the form of emotions, and other pleasure/pain sensations.


Hence liking or disliking something is simply a certain type or quality of pain and pleasure. Though I hesitate to call it pain or pleasure because of the hedonistic assumptions underlying such words.


Thus I believe moral norms are justifed at a self-evident level. Not a cognitive level, but an emotive level.


This means there can be variation of course. What is self-evident to one person may not be to another when it comes to the emotive. But what can be objectively said is that what is self-evident to me, is self-evident to me, even if not to you.


Now what established these moral axioms? I believe evolutionary mechanisms, that are of course expressed through environment. In this sense I am of course making a distinction between proximate causes for adhering to morals (emotions from the brain's point of view) as opposed to ultimate causes (why it evolved, from the genes point of view.)
I distinguishing between ethical explanations and justifications.

To quote Richard Dawkins (leading evolutionary theorist) on a similiar issue:





http://www.meta-library.net/transcript/dawk-body.html


I think morals evolved as a consequence of living in a group, and how group members tend to establish certain norms.

Now I am not saying it is genetically determined. I am saying there is a genetic predisposition.

I am also not saying that we merely practice morality because it benefits our Darwinian fitness. I am saying we practice morality because we want to and we want to practice morality because Darwinian mechanisms in the past have wired us that way. Just like sex, genetic mechanisms of the past are what make us like sex today, but that doesn't mean we just have sex to aid our genes.


It is like growth. We are all genetically predisposed to grow. But does that mean without food and water we will still reach our full height? Does that mean that nutrition does not effect growth?

Of course not. Genetic predispositions are of course nurtured through and expressed through the environment.


To quote geneticist Matt Ridley:


And again:



http://homepage.eircom.net/~odyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Matt_Ridley.html




Dawkins again, on how selfish genes can lead to selfless organisms:





Now Steven Pinker, professor of Neuroscience at MIT:


And Pinker again on why free will (in the dualist sense) is not conductive to morality:




http://homepage.eircom.net/~odyssey/Quotes/Life/Science/Blank_Slate.html#Determinism

Steven Pinker again, on why determinism does not negate responsibility:




Pinker again on why evolutionary theory does not lead to moral nihilism:


http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker_blank/pinker_blank_p3.html