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Y_Cathol

Ego Sum Servus Iesu Christi - I am an exile.
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Hi, PamC

My answer is this: Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. The New Ark.

She was preserved from sin by God, not by any of her own merits, but by His Grace, so that she could bare the Child in Purity, and be the Ark (since the Ark is to be Holy (check leviticus)) and the Child she carries in her womb is the Christ, the Living God.

These here are writings from the Church Fathers:


 
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Carrye

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PamC said:
All people, then, without exception are born fleshly in sin of the body and selfishly of the soul.

But this conclusion cannot result from the scriptures, because if all people without exception were born as you say, then Jesus would have been as well. And if we know that Jesus wasn't, then we must conclude that God is able to make some kind of special provision if he so deems.

More than that, Jesus' human nature was given by his mother. If her human nature was corrupted, then so would his have been. Much of the Church's teaching about Mary is not for her own sake, but comes as a testament to the Person of Jesus Christ - his identity, his nature, his glory.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Personally when there is a question, I feel the 'Father's' knew best.

The earliest Church fathers that is.


Mary was indeed the New Eve, but unlike Eve she remained sinless. She remained obedient.

She was not under the penalty of sin, and did not bear pain at giving birth.
 
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GraceInHim

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PamC said:
What makes you think Mary was without sin? "Put no confidence in the flesh" (Phil. 3:3) and "that which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6). All people, then, without exception are born fleshly in sin of the body and selfishly of the soul.

since you used scripture, let me go alittle forward on this... fleshly desires of sin, temptations, things which we do in the flesh which are sins which you quote in verse Phil 3:3.

"that which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6).

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

and of course you know the rest...

now when Jesus met Nathanael who was with no guile 1:47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."

Think Mary, the mother of our Lord had nothing false about her either, without guile..

question.. having nothing false in one means what?
 
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PamC

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Could it be construed as a legalism by saying "nothing false" then means no sin or has never sinned considering "that which is born of the flesh is flesh"? Isn't the Holy of Holies the place of God's dwelling where the law of commandments judge and we receive God's guidance deep within in communion with God in our spirit? Where is there mention of Mary here? I am convinced we can believe otherwise if we accept books added to the 66 books of the Bible, such as the Ascension of Isaiah or when we are contrary to what the Bible says not to call any man your father as idolizing church fathers who came subsequent to the first century love. My other interest is that there is not just sin but also self. Though someone may not sin, they still can cling to something of self (being born into sin), which no man or woman has never not committed. Since Jesus is God, He can also be sinless man in the likeness of flesh to be the perfect sacrifice, but can a person born of the flesh not be flesh with sin in the body and self of the soul?

My prayer is for very conscientious responses.
 
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