Mary in Scripture

JacktheCatholic · Apr 4, 2007

repentant said:
ALELLULIA....I actually agree with you for once..

LOL!

Benedicta00 · Apr 4, 2007

IAA, there are so many verses, supporting this I couldn't possibly post them all but here is another one that has comes to mind.

And they don't rule, they serve and care for. That is why Jesus said the greatest shall be he who serves. A foreign concept of the Pharisees. Which is why Jesus washed the feet of the apostles.

31But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.

32 Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom.

It has pleased God to give us a Church not the OT law of Moses and that whole seat of authority the Jews corrupted, who did rule and lord over the ppl with no compassion, just the strict letter of the Law that the themselves didn't even bother to obey but loved to enforce.

33 Sell what you possess and give alms. Make to yourselves bags which grow not old, a treasure in heaven which faileth not: where no thief approacheth, nor moth corrupteth

Acts

34For neither was there any one needy among them. For as many as were owners of lands or houses, sold them, and brought the price of the things they sold,

35 And laid it down before the feet of the apostles. And distribution was made to every one, according as he had need.

He is clearly establishing a Church and gave the 12 charge over it but NOT to rule but to serve and care for. The Kingdom of God is His Church, it's his kingdom on earth and the apostles have the seat of authority now and they were taught by Jesus to serve the Church, not to rule over it, and to care for the flock unlike what the pharisees did who just lorded over them.

32 Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom.

It has pleased God to give us a Church.

The kingdom of God is His Church on earth as it is in heaven.

The "Our Father" shows us that.

Our Father who art in heaven, holy is your name... Thy Kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." Give us this day our daily bread..."

It's a prayer for the Church as well as for us the body. This is why we pray it at Mass. We pray for the universal Church as well as for ourselves.

It is what Jesus taught in Luke, to seek ye the Kingdom of God and his justice first and then these things will be given to us.

It contrasts perfectly with Luke And Matthew

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

So there is just too much to even post. I could go on all day.

JacktheCatholic · Apr 4, 2007

IamAdopted said:
The Keys to the Kingdom of God are what? The preaching of the Gospel of Christ. For this is how We enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is by believing In Christ. Jesus gave these Keys to more than just Peter. He gave them to the Apostles. Who preached and wrote the Gospel we have today. Therefore unless the gospel is preached who will believe and be saved? This is the Keys. There is no Vicar of Christ. For He is with us. He has never left us. We as Christians are His ambassadors. To go and tell His message of salvation. There is only one Who sits in rulership and that is Christ. He is the head of His Church and no one else is. Above Christ is God the Father. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and teacher of the word of God. He lives in each of Gods Children. He has put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit

The Keys of the Kingdom.

Matthew 16:19. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus gives his Keys to his kingdom to Peter and Peter alone for nowhere else are the Keys mentioned.

The Gospel of Matthew was written to the Jews and places a lot of emphasis on Jesus being the Son of David. Jesus references the Keys of the Kingdom and they bear the same authority in his Kingdom as they do in David's kingdom of the Old Testament.

Isaias 22:22. And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder

The Key of the House of David was given to the Prime Minsiter who acted in stead of the King in matters. Below the Prime Minister are the Ministers. When a Prime Minister leaves his seat another will take it and thus receive the Key(s) with that office.

Peter was given the Keys to Jesus' kingdom and thus he is the supreme bishop as the prime minister was supreme over other ministers. These keys were passed on in Rome when he died to Linus. Thus the tradition continues unabated.

* Note the similiarity in the text as well for this would not have gone un-noticed by the Jews:

Isaias 22:22. And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matthew 16:19. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Benedicta00 · Apr 4, 2007

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:

His prayer is for the apostolic seats to remain one and for all believers to remain one with them.

This is a prayer for the Church and all believers.

The Church (Catholic and Orthodox) should be ashamed with ourselves because Jesus prayed for us to remain one with each other and we have disobeyed him.

The flock should be ashamed because they have gone off in 50 million directions believing different things from one end of the spectrum to the other.

This is truly sad and I believe the flock going all off in all all different directions is a direct result of the Church not remaining one with each other.

And I guess since Jesus prayed for us all to be one, this is obviously his will and we are not all one with all of the apostolic seats, so, so much for us not having the use of free will when it comes to disobeying God's will.

IamAdopted · Apr 4, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
IAA, there are so many verses, supporting this I couldn't possibly post them all but here is another one that has comes to mind.

And they don't rule, they serve and care for. That is why Jesus said the greatest shall be he who serves. A foreign concept of the Pharisees. Which is why Jesus washed the feet of the apostles.

It has pleased God to give us a Church not the OT law of Moses and that whole seat of authority the Jews corrupted, who did rule and lord over the ppl with no compassion, just the strict letter of the Law that the themselves didn't even bother to obey but loved to enforce.

Acts

He is clearly establishing a Church and gave the 12 charge over it but NOT to rule but to serve and care for. The Kingdom of God is His Church, it's his kingdom on earth and the apostles have the seat of authority now and they were taught by Jesus to serve the Church, not to rule over it, and to care for the flock unlike what the pharisees did who just lorded over them.

It has pleased God to give us a Church.

The kingdom of God is His Church on earth as it is in heaven.

The "Our Father" shows us that.

Our Father who art in heaven, holy is your name... Thy Kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." Give us this day our daily bread..."

It's a prayer for the Church as well as for us the body. This is why we pray it at Mass. We pray for the universal Church as well as for ourselves.

It is what Jesus taught in Luke, to seek ye the Kingdom of God and his justice first and then these things will be given to us.

It contrasts perfectly with Luke And Matthew

So there is just too much to even post. I could go on all day.

A kindgom is not a Church. Oh Boy. I have alot to say about the Prayer, Not enough time or space and this needs to be on a different place. Jesus gave all His Apostles the Keys to the Kingdom. The Gospel being preached so all might believe in Christ and be saved. This is the Key.

15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

If you will read Revelation you will see that Jesus still holds the Keys that you are refering to. For He chooses us and we do not choose Him.

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. 19"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

Benedicta00 · Apr 4, 2007

IamAdopted said:
A kindgom is not a Church. Oh Boy. I have alot to say about the Prayer, Not enough time or space and this needs to be on a different place. Jesus gave all His Apostles the Keys to the Kingdom. The Gospel being preached so all might believe in Christ and be saved. This is the Key. If you will read Revelation you will see that Jesus still holds the Keys that you are refering to. For He chooses us and we do not choose Him.

Yes, he does hold the keys to the kingdom as he sits at the right hand... we never said that the apostles Jesus gave authority over his kingdom on earth to, ever trumps or over rides his authority in heaven.

Like the Our Father says, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

IamAdopted · Apr 5, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
Yes, he does hold the keys to the kingdom as he sits at the right hand... we never said that the apostles Jesus gave authority over his kingdom on earth to, ever trumps or over rides his authority in heaven.

Like the Our Father says, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

And what is this will you are speaking of here?

Benedicta00 · Apr 5, 2007

IamAdopted said:
And what is this will you are speaking of here?

God's will.

The goal of prayer to to seek the will of God for you in your life. Not to get him to stamp his approval on your own will.

This takes humility, to bend to God' will.

The same goes for His Church, the pope and bishops which is who he was teaching how to pray.

The Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is to seek out the will of God and not their own will.

What so ever you bind on earth is bound in heaven, means they seek out God's will and conform to it and it will be done on earth because is God's will in heaven.

What they lose on earth will be loosed in heaven, again, is when they pray conforming to God's will and in this case to what isn't God will.

All it means is we all are to conform to God will and let go of what isn't His will but our own.

Jesus holds the keys in heaven... meaning it is His will the Church is to conform to and His will that governs them. They in turn governs us with the will of God, not with their own whims and fancies. Nor do they govern us with the strict letter of the law like the pharisees did.

IamAdopted · Apr 5, 2007

And how are we to know what Gods will is?

JacktheCatholic · Apr 5, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Jesus gave all His Apostles the Keys to the Kingdom. The Gospel being preached so all might believe in Christ and be saved. This is the Key. If you will read Revelation you will see that Jesus still holds the Keys that you are refering to. For He chooses us and we do not choose Him.

Where did Jesus give the Apostles the Keys???

HisBelovedMelody · Apr 5, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
His prayer is for the apostolic seats to remain one and for all believers to remain one with them.

This is a prayer for the Church and all believers.

The Church (Catholic and Orthodox) should be ashamed with ourselves because Jesus prayed for us to remain one with each other and we have disobeyed him.

The flock should be ashamed because they have gone off in 50 million directions believing different things from one end of the spectrum to the other.

This is truly sad and I believe the flock going all off in all all different directions is a direct result of the Church not remaining one with each other.

And I guess since Jesus prayed for us all to be one, this is obviously his will and we are not all one with all of the apostolic seats, so, so much for us not having the use of free will when it comes to disobeying God's will.

...

Benedicta00 · Apr 5, 2007

IamAdopted said:
And how are we to know what Gods will is?

Read my post, my answer will be the same.

IamAdopted · Apr 5, 2007

This seat that you speak of is that I have the most problem with. Christ is the Head of His church. Has always been the head will always be the Head. He did not pass His headship on to anyone on earth. God did not send His son to die for mens sin just so the Pope can get all the glory and be the one in authority. This is not found in scripture. The Keys handed to Peter was for Peter to unlock the doors to more than just the Jewish people. Peter was a devout Jew. They had very rigid beliefs. Jesus had to break through this with Peter. He used Peter to unlock the doors to the gentiles. He gave Peter a vision of the food on the tarp. Told him to eat. Took Jesus 3 times of telling Peter to eat. Then right after that we see the men of Cornelius. He was a gentile. Despised of the Jews. God sent Peter to Cornelius. God bringing Jews and gentiles together.

Benedicta00 · Apr 5, 2007

IAA, all I can tell you is that you have a very false understanding of what the pope is and what the Catholic Church is.

It is none of what you claim here.

Read over Matthew and see what Jesus says.

15Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

Do you see the contrast, the parallel? "Who do you say that I am.. " Peter says "you are the Christ" and Jesus says, "Blessed are you." and changes his name.

The parallel is, Peter says, "you are the Christ-- and Jesus says, "you are the Rock."

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

here's the critical part..

19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ

He indeed gives his keys of authority, not of power and glory to Peter singular, to bind what is in heaven on earth and to lose what is in heaven on earth.

All the pope does is serve the Church.

Now, it is clear to see that Jesus built His Church as in he is the architect, as this is real tangible thing he himself makes with His own hands.

The Church is never Peter's or the popes, it is Christ's and he is the head of His Church.

And if Christ is who built His Church, with His own divine hands, it stands to reason that the Church is always under His sovereign control, not the pope's and that it will always be protected by the HS to never teach us... His church... his body, an error when it comes to faith and morals for Christ can not deceive nor be deceived.

The pope is just an instrument of Christ. He physically serves Christ's Church and Christ's ppl as Christ is at the right hand in glory.

The pope is a fisherman, a fisher of men and a servant to the other bishops and the faithful.

He is our earthly shepard, Jesus asked him to feed His sheep, to tend to His lambs, to feed His lambs.

This is what he does, he serves the Church and the church, which is us, the faithful.

On this night in the Church we celebrate the washing if the feet and the institution of the Holy Eucharist at the Last Supper.

On this night Jesus went to Peter to wash his feet, the master is to be the servant.

This is what Peter's successor is, a servant.

The apostolic office is a office of humility, not exultation.

This is what the Pharisee were, it is not what the bishops are.

Mathew 23 lines up perfect with Jesus washing the apostles feet.

In Matthew 23 he tells the 12 you are not going to be like them, being called rabbi and teachers thinking they are high above the ppl. But you are going to me, the master who came to serve.

11He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

When Jesus washed the apostles feet, he went to Peter and said, You call me master and teacher and rightfully so, for I am those things... but the master is to become the servant."

13You call me Master, and Lord; and you say well, for so I am.

14If then I being your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; you also ought to wash one another's feet.

15For I have given you an example, that as I have done to you, so you do also.

16Amen, amen I say to you: The servant is not greater than his lord; neither is the apostle greater than he that sent him.

17If you know these things, you shall be blessed if you do them.

The way Jesus talks, saying that he apostles ought to wash one another feet and that if they listen to him they will be blessed.

I think Jesus was saying he knew they would often fail at being humble servants, after all they are human but the office, the seat is what is holy, not the ppl all of the time will be.

So your fears are unfounded. The pope is not a Lord sitting in Christ's throne calling all the shots. he's a servant who serves Christ by serving His Church and feeding His lambs on behalf of Christ who is in heaven.

Christ said he is not going to leave us orphans, he will be with is always and he is, in Communion and in His Church in a real way, he's not only with us spiritually .

IamAdopted · Apr 6, 2007

Do you see the contrast, the parallel? "Who do you say that I am.. " Peter says "you are the Christ" and Jesus says, "Blessed are you." and changes his name.

Lets look at the whole of what Jesus said okay.

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.[/QUOTE] This is why Peter was Blessed. What do Keys do? They open a door do they not? They open a locked door. So Jesus has chosen Peter to unlock the doors so that people might what? Believe in Peter? Or believe in Christ? Jesus used Peter to unlock the Doors to the jews, gentiles samarians, To bring the gospel through out so people would believe what was revealed to Peter through the Father that Jesus is the Christ the Messiah. We are all ambassadors of Christ. All the Apostles were just as Peter. Fellow elders. Jesus did not give Peter popeship. He gave Him a mission. To unlock doors. This is why Jesus said as the Father sent Jesus He sends them. I see nothing in scripture to say other wise and Pope are not even spoken of not even by Peter. I can see how the Pope serves on his high seat as millions of people bow before him as he is paraded around the street. This is nothing of what Peter ever would have done. Ever. Peter was not afraid to die for the gospel of Christ. None of the Apostles were. They preached even as they were being killed for the Gospel sake. Sorry you may say your pope serves the people. I don't see how he does this. I see people even singing songs to this man. What is this all about?

racer · Apr 17, 2007

Oooops.

IamAdopted · Apr 17, 2007

I have head many reasons why Mary had to be a virgin. But scripture tells me that the reason Mary was a virgin was for a sign to Gods people. Not because she was more pure than anyone else. Not because she was immaculate. Here is where Gods people were promised a sign.

10 Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, 11 "Ask the LORD your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights."

12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask; I will not put the LORD to the test." 13 Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right.

packermann · Apr 17, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Birth and infancy of Christ. Matthew 1,2 Luke 1:26-2:40

IamAdopted said:
Jesus left in Jerusalem at age 12. Luke 2:41-51

Marriage feast and Cana. John 2:12

Short visit to Capernaum. John 2:12

Mary and Jesus' brothers come to Capernaum.
Matthew 12:46-50 Mark 3:20-35 Luke 8:19-21
Doubters question Jesus' origin. Matthew 13:55-56
Mark 6:3-4 John 6:42
Crucifixion of Jesus. John 19:25-27

Prayer after the ascension of Christ. Acts 1:14

References by Paul. Romans 1:3 Galatians 4:4

These are all that Mary is talked about in the scriptures. How did she get from here to what some believe of her now?

I notice that you ignored the verse in Revelation about the woman who gave birth to Jesus is crowned in heaven and clothed with sun.

IamAdopted · Apr 17, 2007

packermann said:
I notice that you ignored the verse in Revelation about the woman who gave birth to Jesus is crowned in heaven and clothed with sun.

I guess you missed the scripture which talks about who our Mother is. In Galatians. For this is whom Revelation is talking about.

Hentenza · Apr 17, 2007

packermann said:
I notice that you ignored the verse in Revelation about the woman who gave birth to Jesus is crowned in heaven and clothed with sun.

That woman is not Mary, is Israel. Grasping, grasping.

Mary in Scripture

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.

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