Marijuana

nvxplorer · May 14, 2006

Marijuana has been used for at least 5000 years. It has been illegal for about 70. Can someone point out the groundbreaking discovery in the '30s that showed its use to be a danger to society? One would think that if marijuana were detrimental to the point of requiring incarceration, we would have recognized this long before the 20th century.

xMinionX · May 14, 2006

nvxplorer said:
Marijuana has been used for at least 5000 years. It has been illegal for about 70. Can someone point out the groundbreaking discovery in the '30s that showed its use to be a danger to society? One would think that if marijuana were detrimental to the point of requiring incarceration, we would have recognized this long before the 20th century.

Shoosh, you. No rational thinking allowed.

( + rep)

Harlan Norris · May 14, 2006

TwinCrier said:
Don't we have enough single men in their 30's living in their parents' basment yet?

Good one

Harlan Norris · May 14, 2006

ImmortalTechnique said:
When my kid was old enough to make an informed decision, I'd be happy to do it WITH him... just like many fathers take sons out for first beers.

Do you have children?A good parent does what he can to inhance good charicter.So, if by example we agree with our children's drug use, to what do we turn when it get's away from them?If we take that a step farther and smoke a bowl with them or a drinking binge as a right of passage,what possible good can come of that.We get to be their buddy,but we have lost our right as a parent. Now we are just like all their other friends.

Harlan Norris · May 14, 2006

nvxplorer said:
There are millions of casual users whose beliefs never revolved around dope. Do you think every social drinker is an alcoholic? Your experience does not apply to everyone. Your inability to use in moderation is not a reason to deny responsible users the freedom to imbibe.

Describe for me a responsible user.

Harlan Norris · May 14, 2006

variant said:
Well the government being tyrannical starts with the little things I think.

Everyone should support less government control in every aspect of our lives and you probably will never have to go to jail for holding a belief.

Oh it's gone far beyond the little things.For the record I'm not in favor of wire taps.Never the less these things are now a reality.There's nothing stopping it either.A lot of complaining going on,but no action.So, when a person picks up the phone to call his or her dealer for a bag.Well, you'd have to be pretty thick to not see the implications.I can imagine a day when the purchase of one bag of dope could lead to one being tied to terrorist activity.

susanann · May 14, 2006

nvxplorer said:
Marijuana has been used for at least 5000 years. It has been illegal for about 70. Can someone point out the groundbreaking discovery in the '30s that showed its use to be a danger to society? One would think that if marijuana were detrimental to the point of requiring incarceration, we would have recognized this long before the 20th century.

I think I already pointed that out, it was attempted to be made illegal in 1939 because it was thought to replace our chemical and paper industries.

As far as being around for 5000 years, if it was bad, then the Bible should have mentioned it.

variant · May 14, 2006

Harlan Norris said:
Oh it's gone far beyond the little things.For the record I'm not in favor of wire taps.Never the less these things are now a reality.There's nothing stopping it either.A lot of complaining going on,but no action.So, when a person picks up the phone to call his or her dealer for a bag.Well, you'd have to be pretty thick to not see the implications.I can imagine a day when the purchase of one bag of dope could lead to one being tied to terrorist activity.

Unless I missed something you are supporting it. Both for the original reasons and the likely federal police state we are now wandering into.

susanann · May 14, 2006

variant said:
Unless I missed something you are supporting it. Both for the original reasons and the likely federal police state we are now wandering into.

Yes. The Drug War, and all drug laws, are creating a police state with searching, easdropping, wiretapping, noknock midnight raids, interrogation of anyone carrying cash, use of dogs, bank account searchs and secret reporting of transactions, etc.

The Drug War, and drug laws, have NOT decreased the use of drugs, but instead have caused us to lose our privacy and our liberty.

Gracchus · May 14, 2006

susanann said:
Yes. The Drug War, and all drug laws, are creating a police state with searching, easdropping, wiretapping, noknock midnight raids, interrogation of anyone carrying cash, use of dogs, bank account searchs and secret reporting of transactions, etc.

The Drug War, and drug laws, have NOT decreased the use of drugs, but instead have caused us to lose our privacy and our liberty.

So the war on drugs is a success?

susanann · May 14, 2006

Gracchus said:
So the war on drugs is a success?

The War on Drugs is a HUGE "financial" success - only : for the mafia, police, attorneys, judges, prison construction/service companies, guards, pushers, and politicians.

Everyone else, i.e the general public, are losers, loss of money/tax dollars, lost privacy, police not helping us very much with violent criminals, increased drug usage, etc.

deb7648 · May 14, 2006

regulate and tax

These are the exact reason the governent wont
legalize it,they have no way to regulate it,
it can be grown in back yards,widowsills,
even on your coffee table. it all comes down
to greed the government wouldnt be able to cash
in on the market that is the only reason it is
illegal

Smoke Screen · May 14, 2006

Legalize it...Don't criticize it...

Harlan Norris · May 14, 2006

variant said:
Unless I missed something you are supporting it. Both for the original reasons and the likely federal police state we are now wandering into.

Just pointing out the reality of things.I'm against legalisation for the obvious reason that it will encourage more use. Soon as it's legal, parphinalia shops that sell dope, will spring up everywhere.Back in the 70 to 80s thats how it was,and it wasn't even legal.Of course they didn't sell dope.I did however get a mushroom kit that worked.Shrooms were illegal but not spores.Back then as you might guess I'd have been all for legalisation.Frankly in my mind at that time I more or less thought it was.It was only after my children were born that I began to consider the cost of my dope use.

susanann · May 14, 2006

Harlan Norris said:
Just pointing out the reality of things.I'm against legalisation for the obvious reason that it will encourage more use.

Actuallly, history shows exactly the opposite.

Marijuanna use, from 1789 to 1939, when it was totally legal in this country, resulted in very low usage of marijuanna.

After 1939, when the first law was passed against it, and when marijuanna became illegal, then its use started to increase. More laws, and tougher laws, such as higher penalties, the 1970 law, and starting a drug war, resulted in increased use.

In the early 1900's, when it was legal, it was hard, or impossible for anyone to even know anybody else who used marijuanna.

Today, when it is illegal most people have tried, or are using it.

susanann · May 14, 2006

What happens when you arrest 750,000 marijuanna smokers each year and put them in jail?

-------------------------------------------------
Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll

A shortage of jail beds puts career criminals back on the streets, where they often commit new offenses.
By Jack Leonard, Megan Garvey and Doug Smith, Times Staff Writers

May 14, 2006

More than 150,000 county inmates who have been released during the last four years after serving fractions of their sentences. Thousands, like Moreno, committed violent crimes when they would otherwise have been locked up, even with time off for good behavior.

The large-scale releases started in mid-2002, when Sheriff Lee Baca had to make major budget cuts. Unwilling to lay off patrol officers, he chose to close jails.

As a result, nearly everyone now sentenced to 90 days or less is let go immediately. Many others leave after serving no more than 10% of their time, making Los Angeles County Jail sentences among the weakest in the nation.

A Los Angeles Times investigation of early releases since Baca's jail closures began found:

• Nearly 16,000 inmates — more than 10% of those released early — were rearrested and charged with new crimes while they were supposed to be incarcerated.

• Nearly 2,000 of those rearrested were released early a second time, only to be arrested again while they should have been behind bars. Hundreds of those people cycled through jail three or more times. One example of the revolving door: A 55-year-old woman was released early in 2002 on an assault charge, only to be rearrested three days later on suspicion of another assault. Over the next three years, she was released early 15 times and rearrested 19 times when she was supposed to be locked up.

• Sixteen men, including Moreno, were charged with murders committed while they should have been in jail. Nine are awaiting trial; seven have been convicted in the homicides.

• More than a fourth of those rearrested were charged with violent or life-endangering crimes, including 518 robberies, 215 sex offenses, 641 weapons violations, 635 drunk-driving incidents, 1,443 assaults and 20 kidnappings.

Many of these inmates probably would have committed new offenses even if they had served full sentences. But the early releases have given career criminals more time on the streets to commit additional crimes, endangering the public.

Juvenal Valencia, 21, was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon, released early and then cycled in and out of jail twice more after early releases. Prosecutors have now charged him with first-degree murder in a drive-by shooting that left one man dead and five others wounded. He has pleaded not guilty. At the time of the killing, Valencia had two months left to serve for a probation violation.

In recent years, sheriff's clerks have routinely disregarded sentences handed down by judges. In some cases, inmates are freed despite instructions from a judge that they must serve their full sentences.

"That puts us all in peril," said Los Angeles City Atty. Rocky Delgadillo. "I think criminals have learned from this that there is a way to beat the system…. For many, a few days in jail has become just a cost of doing business."

nvxplorer · May 14, 2006

Harlan Norris said:
Just pointing out the reality of things.I'm against legalisation for the obvious reason that it will encourage more use. Soon as it's legal, parphinalia shops that sell dope, will spring up everywhere.Back in the 70 to 80s thats how it was,and it wasn't even legal.Of course they didn't sell dope.I did however get a mushroom kit that worked.Shrooms were illegal but not spores.Back then as you might guess I'd have been all for legalisation.Frankly in my mind at that time I more or less thought it was.It was only after my children were born that I began to consider the cost of my dope use.

I think your position can be summed up in three words: Pot is evil! Is that about right? You're entitled to your bias, but please admit it.

Even if use did increase with legalization, which isn't a given (pot can be found anywhere as it is), so what?

nvxplorer · May 14, 2006

Harlan Norris said:
Describe for me a responsible user.

Do you know anyone who can control himself when it comes to eating fudge brownies? (no pun intended)

It's kinda like that.

Jetgirl · May 14, 2006

jellybean said:
Not all of them..

I beleive tobacco should stay legal, but i kinda wish people could learn to take that in moderatly too. I think i hear that tobacco in a way has medicinal properties? but not through smoking it...or something about the tobacco plant..

FYI all:

Nicotine, besides being flagrantly addictive (I know, I quit, it sucked) does in fact have a few beneficial effects:

> Raises pain threshold slightly
> Acts as a stimulant without "jitters" or sleeplessness
>>> Suppresses appetite
>>> Hightens consentration/retention
> Has also been shown in widely underreported studies to lessen or reverse the symptoms of Parkinson's, schizophrenia, Alzheimer's and other dopamine system disorders.

Of course on the other hand, there's the lung and heart damage, and carcinogenic factors if it is to be smoked. When I was in college (and not a smoker) I used to slap on a nicotine patch before major study sessions, it helps.

Jetgirl · May 14, 2006

deb7648 said:
regulate and tax

These are the exact reason the governent wont
legalize it,they have no way to regulate it,
it can be grown in back yards,widowsills,
even on your coffee table. it all comes down
to greed the government wouldnt be able to cash
in on the market that is the only reason it is
illegal

I'd like to see a move for all the pot-heads out there to just fling seeds out the window when driving. Once the plant goes native it's going to be completely ridiculous to try and ban it. It would like trying to ban crab grass. Good luck.

Marijuana

What is your disposition on marijuana?

Legalize it.

Medical uses only.

Keep illegal.

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