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Basically, that is what I was saying in my own post. It's not going to be literal streets paved with gold and mansions with diamonds and rubies everywhere. These are simply figurative descriptions meaning that there will be wonderful things awaiting us, things which are beyond what we can even imagine now.If you choose to believe it's an analogy ok, I choose to believe that my mind cannot comprehend what the Lord has waiting for us.
If you read the next verse it is Jesus Christ of Nazareth who places Himself as the "abode" because we live " in Him". ... " and recieve you into myself" .This is another example of the use of Jewush hyperbolic language to make a strong point and not to be taken literally. Be blessed.John 14:2
Now I realize in other translations they translate it as "many rooms" or "many abodes" but typically when people think of heaven the "many mansions" illustration gets used, and it is even used as "something to look forward to" in heaven/new earth. But to me, it has never really mattered, desiring material wealth was something I grew out of a long time ago. But I've been thinking about it, and I realize, I don't even know if there's really a point to a "mansion" in heaven. We won't need sleep, so who needs a bedroom, as far as we know we're going to be eating fruit off the tree of life, so won't really need a kitchen... everyone's going to be single and not have any children, so you wouldn't need any extra rooms for extra people.. just a bunch of bachelor pads... if you'd even need one of those for any purpose as you wouldn't need shelter from the elements.. so what would be the point? Even in Isaiah there's imagery of people building houses... for what?
Basically, that is what I was saying in my own post. It's not going to be literal streets paved with gold and mansions with diamonds and rubies everywhere. These are simply figurative descriptions meaning that there will be wonderful things awaiting us, things which are beyond what we can even imagine now.
Agreed not everything in Revelation is figurative.I'm from the old school, we believe the scripture should be taken literally until it becomes obvious that it's not.
The context will reveal the literal and the figurative.
Okay. What we have been discussing in these last several posts is an example of a part of scripture that obviously is not.I'm from the old school, we believe the scripture should be taken literally until it becomes obvious that it's not.
Okay. What we have been discussing in these last several posts is an example of a part of scripture that obviously is not.
Should I instead go by the translation according to Charlie?
How is thinking that the streets are not literally going to be paved with gold but that the wonders that await are even more wonderful than that...going to take anyone "into false doctrine?" Explain, please.Of course not! Take it the way you see it.
There's nothing wrong with that, until the figurative takes you into false doctrine that does matter to God.
Are you saying the New Jerusalem is not a real city, a real place ?How is thinking that the streets are not literally going to be paved with gold but that the wonders that await are even more wonderful than that...going to take anyone "into false doctrine?" Explain, please.
How is thinking that the streets are not literally going to be paved with gold but that the wonders that await are even more wonderful than that...going to take anyone "into false doctrine?" Explain, please.
... so what would be the point? Even in Isaiah there's imagery of people building houses... for what?
John 14:2
Now I realize in other translations they translate it as "many rooms" or "many abodes" but typically when people think of heaven the "many mansions" illustration gets used, and it is even used as "something to look forward to" in heaven/new earth. But to me, it has never really mattered, desiring material wealth was something I grew out of a long time ago. But I've been thinking about it, and I realize, I don't even know if there's really a point to a "mansion" in heaven. We won't need sleep, so who needs a bedroom, as far as we know we're going to be eating fruit off the tree of life, so won't really need a kitchen... everyone's going to be single and not have any children, so you wouldn't need any extra rooms for extra people.. just a bunch of bachelor pads... if you'd even need one of those for any purpose as you wouldn't need shelter from the elements.. so what would be the point? Even in Isaiah there's imagery of people building houses... for what?
In Revelation 1v 10, John says he was in the spirit. This indicates that we need to take what he goes on to say, spiritually, not just naturally. Throughout the Bible 'sea' is always is a spiritual symbol for the unsaved. And the mansions need to be taken spiritually too. If you look back through the Bible at all the architectural metaphors it is clear what the mansions represent spiritually and where they will be.It's certainly not clear from scripture where or what our mansions will be.
There will be no more seas, which will add almost 2/3 of living space.
Wow that's harsh on yourself! I agree that the Bible indicates there are various levels of reward, but there are also going to be people who look as if they've been 'good'Christians and end up in the outer court wailing and gnashing their teeth because they didn't build relationship with God and He doesn't know them. God will be the judge of you, your relationship with Him, and where you spend eternity, so press in to Him and be encouraged that anyone, rich,poor,neurotypical or neuro diverse, able bodied or not can have the kind of relationship that will bring them into the fullness of the kingdom.There will be bad Christians like me in Heaven who are saved through resting in the finished work of the cross and there will be good Christians who have done much and will gain a reward or many rewards in Heaven...I am price
she's to know a few good Christians like that
I'm from the old school, we believe the scripture should be taken literally until it becomes obvious that it's not.
The context will reveal the literal and the figurative.
If you read the next verse it is Jesus Christ of Nazareth who places Himself as the "abode" because we live " in Him". ... " and recieve you into myself" .This is another example of the use of Jewush hyperbolic language to make a strong point and not to be taken literally. Be blessed.
Basically, that is what I was saying in my own post. It's not going to be literal streets paved with gold and mansions with diamonds and rubies everywhere. These are simply figurative descriptions meaning that there will be wonderful things awaiting us, things which are beyond what we can even imagine now.
Agreed not everything in Revelation is figurative.
There are many things that the human mind cannot comprehend concerning the future with God.
Considering that John tells us in Rev. 21:16 that the "New Jerusalem" is four square measuring 12,000 furlongs, with the length, breadth, and the height being equal.
That translates to 1,500 miles wide and 1,500 miles high.
I would say yes, the mansions are literal.
Life will go on forever, with children being born to those who will have natural bodies (those saved after the first resurrection.) Just the way God intended for Adam and Eve, until sin entered the world.
But at this time there is no more sin in the world, at all. It will be the Perfect Age that will continue forever.
Revelation 21
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
hope this helps !!!
Over the years of trying to figure things out, I have come to a few strong conclusions, among which is that the things of this earth are pictures or figures of the things to come. I honestly don't believe there is anything here, but sin and its results, that won't be shown to be vapors compared to the real thing in the next life. One example would be to say that God is not like the fathers on earth, but that the fathers on earth are like God --however poorly they may be so. Another such example is to say that God is not male, like human or animals can be males; rather, he is masculine --super-masculine, actually-- and what is masculine on earth is weakly so by comparison, males being only one example of masculinity.
Many insist that good hermeneutics show that the word "as", in "as a bride" (Rev 21:2) proves the New Jerusalem is not the Bride herself but is only AS a bride in some way, though I have yet to hear some way that would happen. Anyhow, I believe the New Jerusalem, the place Christ went to heaven to prepare for us IS THE ELECT. (I can't prove it, of course, but there are just too many pictures given, too many indicators, and by thinking this is so there are too many things in scripture that finally line up for me, for me to think otherwise. And I admit, I could be wrong.)
My sister says she has no interest in a city, no matter how glorious and beyond imagination, though she admits God can change her mind agout it if he wishes to. I myself, and many other believers I know, hate crowds and some even don't like people, specially unfamiliar people. But THIS --a place for God to be with us, and for us to finally be with him and see him as he is-- the places where each individual has his own name, but everything (everyone) is part of everything (everyone) else, the Bride of Christ, bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, has the REAL things that we thought we saw on earth --dwelling places, pearls for gates, transparent gold for streets, living water, and so on.
Haha, the biggest reason I can find for not believing I have this right is that I can sort of imagine it, but God says it is beyond imagination.
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