Man does not have an "immortal" soul.

Blade · Jun 8, 2022

To bypass what the word says about hell.. then to say all this and not address it. Before the fall what who in all creation was doomed to die? Everything God creates is life. Those rocks we think are dead lifeless.. Christ said if you stop them even the rocks will cry out. Your looking at this through the flesh.. God is spirit. As long as you look at it like this you will not understand. Its supernatural not natural. there was a reason a plan for all this and so much of we will not know till this is over.

To much of this we don't know and one has to speculate. You know to ADD to what is not written. What we ADD again is not scripture.

Servant78 · Jun 8, 2022

martymonster said:
No, that verse does not prove that the parable of Lazarus and the Richman is not a parable. If you think that is a literal account, are you hoping to go to Abraham's literal bosom?

Also, if it's a parable (which it clearly is) then what is i IPt a parable about?

Revelation 20 speaks about great white Throne judgment which proof human soul still live after death.

Hebrews 3:15

martymonster · Jun 8, 2022

Servant78 said:
Revelation 20 speaks about great white Throne judgment which proof human soul still live after death.

Hebrews 3:15

One word... Resurrection!

Der Alte · Jun 8, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
Kind of. It's a confluence of 2nd Temple Jewish thought as well as Greek thought, and the interaction between the two (which had been going on since Alexander the Great conquered Persia). It is that confluence of 2nd Temple Jewish thinking and Greek thinking that is the context for Jewish thinkers like Philo of Alexandria.
While the Platonic view of the soul is that the soul is "immortal", it's also true that Jews of the 2nd Temple Period believed also in "the immortality of the soul", in that the person continued to exist beyond death. While Jewish beliefs about the afterlife were diverse and complex, that a person's life or soul or something continued beyond the death of the body was part of popular Jewish belief, especially the Pharisees (the Sadducees did not believe in either life after death or in the resurrection of the body).
We can see this going back to parts of the Old Testament, for example the incident where King Saul had a clandestine meeting with a medium, and to everyone's surprise, the shade of Samuel appears. Or we can see how the Psalmist speaks of making his bed in She'ol (and still, God is there, even in the deep pit of death), or how David looks forward to being reunited with his infant son in the grave.
So there is plenty biblical and Jewish thought that forms the basis of the Christian belief in life after death (between bodily death and bodily resurrection); though there was Greek influence as well, both in good ways and also in potentially problematic ways (and the early fathers while both using Greek philosophy also warned against the over-use of that philosophy, Tertullian remarking "What have Jerusalem and Athens to do with one another?" and St. Basil the Great wrote that those seeking wisdom will be like honey bees choosing only to take the choice nectar and leaving the rest.
-CryptoLutheran

I did not see even one scripture quoted and certainly no credible, verifiable, historical etc. evidence supporting any of this. The fact alone that something existed in another culture and Christianity has a practice similar to it is NOT evidence that it was copied. Your quotes from Tertullian and St Basil are interesting but not proof of anything. Please see my posts #15 and 16, above.

Eloy Craft · Jun 8, 2022

The immortality of the human soul is evident in human thought and behavior. The very idea of immortality is otherwise impossible if it were not true.

ViaCrucis · Jun 8, 2022

Der Alte said:
I did not see even one scripture quoted and certainly no credible, verifiable, historical etc. evidence supporting any of this. The fact alone that something existed in another culture and Christianity has a practice similar to it is NOT evidence that it was copied. Your quotes from Tertullian and St Basil are interesting but not proof of anything. Please see my posts #15 and 16, above.

Perhaps I lacked clarity in my intention: I don't believe the Church merely adopted a Greek view, rather I think that the ideas present in both historic Judaism as well as Greek philosophy provided language which the Church has used to help explain and articulate what we believe. When St. John calls Jesus the Logos he is borrowing a term and concept that already existed to explain the eternal generation of the Son. We also see Logos-language in Philo of Alexandria who brought together Jewish and Greek thought into his writings.

This is context that surrounds Scripture and in which Scripture is couched, recognizing the broad historical and cultural context of Scripture and the historic Church is one of the fundamental ways that we read and engage Scripture and do good exegesis.

-CryptoLutheran

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

Minister Monardo said:
So you read some books, learned some new things,
and you think that is what it means to receive a
revelation?
1 Corinthians 2:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
neither have entered into the heart of man, the things
which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:
for the Spirit searches all things, yea,
the deep things of God.

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

What are you talking about? How did you come up with a reason to reply to me with a comment that has absolutely nothing with what I posted! I didn't mention anything about "getting a revelation!" How did you come up with that troll? You call yourself a minister? You might have the title, but I am positive that while you call yourself that, it is obvious you weren't called by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. I bet you call yourself an "evangelical," Tell me where the word "evangelical" is in Scripture? My post is obvious to anyone that reads it, is a study about whether or not man has an immortal soul. And then I discussed how people, who want to study, should get the books I mentioned. Then I added some other recommendations if one wants to learn more about the Jewishness of the entire Scripture. Where do you get from that where I said I had a revelation? I have never said, nor will I ever say "I was given a revelation." Anything I post is based on an honest study of Scripture or things I have learned that I am positive will help others. At no time have I ever demanded that people should believe or agree with me. If people agree with what I post, great. If people disagree with what I post, just as great. Hmm, I wonder if you are one of those who often claim that a member of the godhead,"spoke to you," "gave you a revelation," or, "sent you a dream or vision?" Oh well, I'll just continue to study and you can continue to teach the lying traditions of men. It's all good. I have been called to study and teach truth, you have been ordained to do what you do. In the end, you will probably hear from Jesus, " I never knew you, depart from me..."

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

Blade said:
To bypass what the word says about hell.. then to say all this and not address it. Before the fall what who in all creation was doomed to die? Everything God creates is life. Those rocks we think are dead lifeless.. Christ said if you stop them even the rocks will cry out. Your looking at this through the flesh.. God is spirit. As long as you look at it like this you will not understand. Its supernatural not natural. there was a reason a plan for all this and so much of we will not know till this is over.

To much of this we don't know and one has to speculate. You know to ADD to what is not written. What we ADD again is not scripture.

Minister Monardo · Jun 9, 2022

Bob corrigan said:
What are you talking about? How did you come up with a reason to reply to me with a comment that has absolutely nothing with what I posted! I didn't mention anything about "getting a revelation!"

And yet you write these "most churches are deceived" posts
as if you just came down from the mountain. I know you
obviously did not receive anything from above, you list
your bibliography. So you read some books. Nobody cares.

Bob corrigan said:
I didn't mention anything about "getting a revelation!" How did you come up with that troll? You call yourself a minister? You might have the title, but I am positive that while you call yourself that, it is obvious you weren't called by God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. I bet you call yourself an "evangelical," Tell me where the word "evangelical" is in Scripture?

There you go again. Sharing your obvious gifts of discern-
ment, as if you know me, or anybody else in the churches
you are constantly "dissing" on your threads. Your opinion
of me has left me shaken.

Bob corrigan said:
I wonder if you are one of those who often claim that a member of the godhead,"spoke to you," "gave you a revelation," or, "sent you a dream or vision?"

There are over 1200 threads that I have originated, so you
have plenty if you need to back your claims. Good luck!

Bob corrigan said:
Oh well, I'll just continue to study and you can continue to teach the lying traditions of men. It's all good.

Name one.

Bob corrigan said:
I have been called to study and teach truth,

So claimed David Koresh

Bob corrigan said:
you have been ordained to do what you do. In the end, you will probably hear from Jesus, " I never knew you, depart from me..."

Ah, so you are a prophet after all. Thanks for sharing.

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

I only mentioned that I don't believe in "hell," that is all I said. My study was based on the false teaching that "man has an immortal soul " That is what I addressed. If you want to make a comment, why don't you discuss my study? Did you even bother to verify what I wrote? If I'm wrong, show me thru Scripture how and why I am wrong. It's so funny, over the years, I have posted many Bible studies. Yet, when I get responses, they are 95% about things that have nothing to do with the study. Why is that? Because my studies debunk the lies being taught. I use Scripture and word definition in my studies, yet people don't like what the studies say, and they don't like it when their fantasy of false teaching is destroyed. Since they can't disprove my studies, they still feel a need to criticize me in some way and bring up things that have absolutely nothing to do with the study. To what end? Because they feel a need to somehow find fault with me, so they ask pointless questions. I didn't do a study on hell because that was not my goal. That in no way diminishes my study. Entire books have been written on the subject of hell. To do a study on hell on this site would require a lot of time and words from me and I may do a study on hell one day, but it cannot be covered in a short post. If you believe in hell, more power to you! I don't care what you or others believe, to each his own! You believe in hell, I don't, end of story. I would never try to "convince" or persuade you to not believe in hell.

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

Eloy Craft said:
The immortality of the human soul is evident in human thought and behavior. The very idea of immortality is otherwise impossible if it were not true.

Der Alte · Jun 9, 2022

@Bob corrigan
Man does not have an "immortal" soul.
While that is true, if God wants souls to live forever He can make that happen. He caused a bush to burn but not be consumed. He prevented the fire in a hot furnace from burning Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego.

Jesus is YHWH · Jun 9, 2022

Bob corrigan said:
I only mentioned that I don't believe in "hell," that is all I said. My study was based on the false teaching that "man has an immortal soul " That is what I addressed. If you want to make a comment, why don't you discuss my study? Did you even bother to verify what I wrote? If I'm wrong, show me thru Scripture how and why I am wrong. It's so funny, over the years, I have posted many Bible studies. Yet, when I get responses, they are 95% about things that have nothing to do with the study. Why is that? Because my studies debunk the lies being taught. I use Scripture and word definition in my studies, yet people don't like what the studies say, and they don't like it when their fantasy of false teaching is destroyed. Since they can't disprove my studies, they still feel a need to criticize me in some way and bring up things that have absolutely nothing to do with the study. To what end? Because they feel a need to somehow find fault with me, so they ask pointless questions. I didn't do a study on hell because that was not my goal. That in no way diminishes my study. Entire books have been written on the subject of hell. To do a study on hell on this site would require a lot of time and words from me and I may do a study on hell one day, but it cannot be covered in a short post. If you believe in hell, more power to you! I don't care what you or others believe, to each his own! You believe in hell, I don't, end of story. I would never try to "convince" or persuade you to not believe in hell.

I've never heard of a single Calvinist with your beliefs on the soul and hell and I was a Calvinist for over 40 years and have a library full of Calvinist books, theologies, the Institutes, the WCF etc......

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

Okay, you are giving me your personal opinion, your own philosophy, which is fine, you can believe whatever you desire. I, on the other hand let Scripture be my authority. What I believe is found in Scripture. Since I am teaching from Scripture, I request you to answer this question with Scripture. 1Tim 6:15-16 clearly teaches that only God is immortal, yes? If only God is immortal, then mankind is not? Yes? Based on this, please show me with Scripture where or how man is immortal. Don't try to use Lk 16:19-31, as that is a parable, not a true story. Show me a verse, or verses that explicitly state that man is immortal, has an immortal soul or uses the words,"the immortality of man " Forgive me for using another verse, but what do you do with Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said,"Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:and now , lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree if life, and eat, and live for ever." Meaning Adam would have had to eaten of the tree if life to live forever.

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

Servant78 said:
Revelation 20 speaks about great white Throne judgment which proof human soul still live after death.

Hebrews 3:15

Bob corrigan · Jun 9, 2022

You forget
Gen 3:22
Mat 27:51-53
John 5:28
John 3:13
You can't build a doctrine, teach something out of Scripture or prove/disprove something by using one verse.

JSRG · Jun 9, 2022

Bob corrigan said:
Part of the definition of immortal is, "having no beginning or end." If I'm not mistaken, all people have a beginning, they don't exist until the sperm penetrates the egg. When God made the physical body of Adam, Adam wasn't alive until God gave him the breath of life. Adam didn't come to life because his "immortal soul," floating around somewhere, entered his body. If men's souls are immortal, then they would have to be in existence for as long as God and definitely around before God created anything. Scripture does not teach this.

You claim that "Part of the definition of immortal is, "having no beginning or end."" I have never seen that as the definition--immortal does indicate something not having an end, but not anything about something not having a beginning. Just to be sure, I consulted several dictionaries and none of them match your definition. While they do are in agreement with the claim of something having no end being immortal (e.g. the New Oxford American Dictionary gives the definition of "living forever; never dying or decaying" which is essentially saying no end), none of them say anything at all about having no beginning being part of the definition for immortality.

Your argument here relies on immortal meaning "having no beginning or end". But as noted, that is not the meaning at all for immortal. Can you cite any dictionary that backs up your proposed definition of immortal?

Jesus is YHWH · Jun 9, 2022

random theology with no systematic.

Eloy Craft · Jun 9, 2022

eclipsenow said:
The hermeneutic is back to front. Gotta take how the NT interprets the OT, not the other way around. You've put a framework of the earlier interpreting the later covenant, where the bible definitely has Jesus and the apostles interpreting the earlier, older covenant. The OT provides background for good biblical theology, but the NT is the final authority on all matters eschatological - not the other way around.

Besides this is all off-topic! I don't want to discuss who is right or wrong here - like a thousand* other conflicting, circular, going-nowhere futurist threads!
I want to ask how to cope with the "knowledge" we have.

* See what I did with 1000 there?

Bob corrigan said:
1Tim 6:15-16 clearly teaches that only God is immortal, yes? If only God is immortal, then mankind is not? Yes?

Bob corrigan said:
Show me a verse, or verses that explicitly state that man is immortal, has an immortal soul or uses the words,"the immortality of man " F

You claim to be guided by the authority of scriptures.
Useful for teaching,correction and such. That function requires agreement on what scripture means. Scripture is useless and seizes to be authoritative among those who don't agree on it's meaning.

I could and I'm sure others have, offer a multitude of Scripture that teach that human life enjoyed immortal life before sin brought death. But what use is that if those scriptures mean something else to you?
Your appeal to the authority of scripture makes evident that you misunderstand scripture

Man does not have an "immortal" soul.

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my Lord and my God !

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