Mahatma Gandhi on Socialism.

paul becke said:

Alas, it is you who are overlooking God's word, and substituting man's wisdom.

Jesus went out of his way on a number of occasions to point out that his listeners, notably the more worldly, monied members of the religious / political Establishment, continually and very wrongly interpreted natural virtues as supernatural ones; when in fact, the very term is self-explanatory.

Worse, still, they do so at the expense of the supernatural counterparts of such natural virtues, the supernatural virtues being inspired by the grace of the Holy Spirit, selfless love, the active ingredient in all the virtues.

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Selfless love? How is such a thing even possible? Keep in mind that you are to love thy neighbor as thyself, not in spite of thyself.

There are very few people who would prefer not to work. "Do not the tax-collectors/robbers/heathen do as much?" is probably what Jesus would say, as he said on a number of occasions regarding the natural virtues. It is a wicked sin dating back to early biblical times to blame the poor for being poor, allegedly not seeking or accepting employment; when the truth is tha the general public are dependent on the monied people to provide work for them providing a living wage; instead of which, again on the most medacious of grounds, they have been assiduouly "outsourcing" the jobs abroad.

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The rich of Jesus' time were not self made men, industrialists and capitalists, they were the opposite. Their wealth was a result of their political power, their birth, and their ability conquer and tyrannize.

Even the Church, itself, has failed down the centuries to stress, as Jesus and his Evangelists did, that Ambition is a singularly pernicious vice, and I think it's fair to say that, as a result, it has now become a tacit part of the canon of Christian virtues! The only proper ambition for a Christian is to lead a devout life. In doing this he will automatically be an exemplar of conscientious application in his work, always doing it, not to please his employer, but for the glory of God.

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So Ambition in regards to ones own well being is a 'pernicious vice.' I guess that would make sloth a virtue in your eyes then. Now who's substituting his own 'wisdom for Gods?

As for the redistribution of wealth being a no-no for Christians, you seem to be totally unaware that the left is only trying to redress the worst excesses of the redistribution by the rich of God's bounty, which was/is intended for all his children. How is it you do not see the plank in the eyes of the rich, yet deplore the speck in the eyes of the poorer folk?

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It is not that the left wishes to redress what they see as wrong that is the issue. It is how they go about it that is. To paraphrase here, you dont do evil that good may come. Try a solution that doesnt involve you engaging in the very practice you denounce--theft.

The reason why the people at top get more money is because they allegedly are the ones directing how the labor is done to create performance.

My issue with it is that there are those in the poorest countries performing labor with little choice that are not getting any money, any real benefits and any real social mobility.

Americans complaining about wages is a bit absurd, though, as the poor in this nation live better than most of the wealthy in many nations -- including other 1st world nations.

Ishraqiyun said:

You love everyone as your Self because everyone is the Self. Self being another term for the Absolute. The One without a second. There is also a little self, the ego, which is a product of the body mind organism. The highest love is selfless in this second sense of the term.

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Selfless love? There is nothing selfless about love and what we love reveals a great deal about ourselves. Love, friendship, respect, admiration are the emotional response of one man to the virtues of another, the spiritual payment given in exchange for the personal, selfish pleasure which one man derives from the virtues of another man’s character. Only a brute or an altruist would claim that the appreciation of another person’s virtues is an act of selflessness, that as far as one’s own selfish interest and pleasure are concerned, it makes no difference whether one deals with a genius or a fool, whether one meets a hero or a thug, whether one marries an ideal woman or a harlot. (note- what I italicized I copied from another site but I think it reveals quite well that love is the antithesis of selflessness).

Ishraqiyun said:

You love everyone as your Self because everyone is the Self. Self being another term for the Absolute. The One without a second. There is also a little self, the ego, which is a product of the body mind organism. The highest love is selfless in this second sense of the term.

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You are way into Hindu thought, bro.

It is kind of nice, really.

I like reading things like this.

Thanks for contributing this -- the West could use more of your awesome Eastern stuff.

lordbt said:

It is not that the left wishes to redress what they see as wrong that is the issue. It is how they go about it that is. To paraphrase here, you dont do evil that good may come. Try a solution that doesnt involve you engaging in the very practice you denounce--theft.

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Physician heal thyself.

Ishraqiyun said:

He wouldn't have said the same about you. That's one of the reasons I admire him. He often behaved in a truly Christ like manner with his political and religious opponents. Much better than I do. He didn't slander them or try to dehumanize them. He wouldn't even legally prosecute the people who wronged him. He forgave the people who attacked him and almost lynched him in South Africa and wouldn't testify against them for example.

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Although Gandhi apparently denied it at one time, it is clear from the burden of his comments that Gandhi did believe in the divininity of Christ. In fact, I do believe he was a secret Christain and a great saint. His criticisms of formal Christianity, as evidenced in the West, imo, make him a very early precursor of Vatican II in the Catholic church.

Indeed, his distance from the Tridentine, indeed, the traditional Catholic Christian culture, overlaid as it became with distorted 'traditions of men' (as well as good ones), precluded his being able to resign himself to the former, in the way that we, Catholics, inevitably do to an appreciable extent. So, he sees with the pristine clarity of a child, if the mind of a spiritual genius.

It may be that his Hindu background made it easier for him to identify when 'grace buiding upon nature' has been used by the Christian church, not simply as an indispensably-wise insight into the truth of the temporal limitations of our human condition, but as an excuse for a hideous spiritual complacency, similar to that of the Synagogue in Christ's day. (Put no trust in delusive words like these: 'This is the sanctuary of the Lord, the sancturay of the Lord!' - Jeremiah 7).

How unrecognisable our political class would be, and how respected our political systems, if they reflected these insights of Gandhi:

"The seven blunders that human society commits and cause all the violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principles."

Here is a fascinating link to an article on Gandhi and Christianity:

http://in.christiantoday.com/articledir/print.htm?id=2837