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I wouldn't say it's incorrect. However, I have found that to conservatives, anyone who is not conservative is usually labeled a liberal.chrismon said:OK, I'm confused by those responses to Yoder. I've read (albeit "only") _The Politics of Jesus_ and then others words about Yoder and books by those who have followed in his footsteps (e.g. Camp). I have gathered that the nature of his politics has nothing to do with conservativism or liberalism as we might think of politics or religion. His politics seem more radically orthogonal to those argument. The PoJ demands that the Gospel is political because it is in direct conflict with and is the death knell for all other political views, not because it espouses a particular human agenda. Does this make sense? Is this an incorrect assessment? Please explain.
menno said:Historical anabaptists are non-resistant and not pacifist.
Non-resistance does not seek to force. J Guy Hershberger wrote an excellent book on this War, Peace, and Non-Resistance
Pacifism seeks to use power in non-violent ways.
Liberal anabaptists/mennonites tend to be pacifists if they embrace a non-violence path. Conservative mennonites will embrace the historical non-resistance.
chrismon said:Would you, please, define non-violent power? How it is different from the "violence" of advantage? From my knowledge of Yoder and his ilk, they would be against the use of advantage as to use it is just a form of violence (coercive force).
Jesus and the Apostles resisted in the form of their refusal to cease preaching the Gospel, to refuse caring for those whom society had rejected, and so on. (I.e. not capitulating to the authorities). But I cannot think of a way they invoked power or advantage, save for prayer or speaking truth to Powers.
Again, please let me re-iterate that I am going back and forth with you all to sharpen my understanding of Anabaptism and Yoder, not to argue.
chrismon said:Ah, OK. A simple yet effective answer
I wonder, if we had a repeat of something like the Civil Rights Movement, as led by King, how my church's pastoral staff and Session would have us respond.
chrismon said:I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yet we can, and I believe it is central to being a disciple, sit (as opposed to making a stand) with the oppressed and befriend them, serve them. This would not be to combat the Powers, or even to address them really. It would simply be a witness to the here-but-not-yet Kingdom, not to solve the problem of oppression or poverty. God has already done that, we would only be acting accordingly. Would you agree?
We are called to stand.chrismon said:...and I believe it is central to being a disciple, sit (as opposed to making a stand) ...
1Corinthians 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
2Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
1Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
mesue said:We are called to stand.
Not walk, not sit, not run towards, nor run away,
but stand, immovable on a solid foundation.
menno said:"Just praying?" that can't be enough for change...can it? Only in glory will we know how separated folks, whether plain folks, monks, or little old grandmas in their little kitchens have changed the world.
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 6:18-19).
P_G said:See and I always thought the reason why the Anabaptists were here in BA is because there was so few of us and we were out wandering the Cyber streets of CF. Being cold and alone out there begging for scraps of food and other types of alms a large Baptist group came along (singing Christmas Carols as I remember) and well they took us in and fed us and gave us a nice comfortable corner in a forum and have just treated us like part of the family ever since then.
But then maybe my memory is a little fuzzy I am getting older you know
PG
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