Looking for a church that doesn't teach Tithing? Please help

While I do not believe that churches should ever attempt to lead believers back under the Law of the Tithe (which, incidentally, is more like 23%, not 10%, when you add the all tithe ordinances together) anymore than you should bring them under the Law of Circumcision, I do believe the principle of proportionate giving is good. Both tithe and circumcision predate the Law but were both incorporated in the Law.

What is wrong with tithe teaching is that it is taught as a requirement. It becomes a religious tax and when the “if you don’t tithe God will get it” idea is taught, it becomes more like extortion.

However, young Christians who need guidance in how to live out their faith can be taught to use the tithe as a model of how and how much to give providing they understand that a legalistic approach to giving will create a “grudging”, not a generous, attitude toward the practice.

At our church we do not preach tithing. We do teach that a Christian is generous, not just in giving money, but in every area of their life. Heck, we don’t even pass the plate; instead, we simply have donation baskets around the building for those who desire to give. It works for us and our aggregate giving is comparable to that of any other church.


~Jim

I must jump in.....you were doing so well until this line.

So wealthy Christians are those who have been good stewards of their material blessings, then ergo...... poor Christians are those who have not been good stewards of their financial blessing?

Is this what you're suggesting?

Like you, please clarify before I presumptiously respond to something you didn't mean.

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Hey Andry! I was definitely not suggesting that the level of one's wealth is a sign of how well they handle their wealth or a sign of 'how good a christian' they are. My point was simply that when people sow generously and use their money well for God's purposes, He promises to bless them and bring a generous harvest into their life. However, there are some exceptions to this. For example, there are wealthy christians who don't use their money for God's purposes, but through natural means, and out of their own strength (as apposed to God's strength) accumulate wealth. And there are also poor christians who are going through a time of testing and seeing whether they can remain faithful with little before God gives them much and brings a great harvest into their life. The Apostle Paul went through a similar time when He had to show God that He could remain content no matter what the circumstances before God blessed and 'abundantly supplied' him (Ph 4).

So, there is a principle of sowing and reaping that exists with respect to finances (and other things). However you can't judge people by the level of their wealth, because it really isn't that simple. It is quite possible to have a poor christian (who is about to receive their blessing from God as they continue to honour Him with their wealth), and it is quite possible to have a wealthy christian who has achieved a measure of wealth out of their own strength.

Hope this helps to clarify. God bless.

Question: Is it that you feel the tithing, literal definition of giving 10% (www.m-w.com) is legalism or that giving any amount of money at all is legalism?

As someone mentioned above, a lot of people will figure out a budget, and give a percentage, not necessarily 10%, because it's what they can afford. Because they know they can afford to give 7.5% every week, and that's what they do, is considered legalism??

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Any strict law of giving is legalism. If you have made a law for yourself to give 10% or a law to give 7.5% or a law to give 100% that you feel you MUST obey each week then that is legalism. However, there is nothing wrong with giving 7.5% each week assuming:

1. You feel the Holy Spirit prompting you to give 7.5% each week
2. 7.5% is a generous amount for you
3. You don't feel like you HAVE to obey a law of giving 7.5% each week.

We should never give whatever is simply easy to give, or what we feel that we can comfortably afford to give. I believe that God desires greater from us. We should always be pushing the boundaries of what is generous for us and always pushing the boundaries of what we can give cheerfully. (Although it's possible), it's very hard to ever give too much!

God bless.

While I do not believe that churches should ever attempt to lead believers back under the Law of the Tithe (which, incidentally, is more like 23%, not 10%, when you add the all tithe ordinances together)

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Correct! So few people understand this these days! Im so glad you brought this up. The tithing we see today bares almost NO resemblence to the tithing of the old covenant. Firstly, the tithes of the old covenant amounted to an average of 23% each year. Secondly, even though money existed at the time, tithes were never paid in money because tithes were supposed to be eaten. Tithes (even when money existed) were not supposed to be paid in money but in food. If people are serious about obeying the laws of tithing then they should be giving 23% and should be converting that 23% of money into food and paying their tithes in the form of food.

However, the laws of tithing have been abolished so there is no need to do that. Just pointing out a floor in the arguments of many people. Thanks for bringing this up Jim M.

godson777 said:

Tithing is an old covenant law that was abolished on the cross... Now that tithing has been abolished we are supposed to give generously, cheerfully, sacrificially, and consistently.

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Priase the Lord, You are 100 percent correct in this teaching. Let me add that I feel the 10 percent is just a good starting place. New Testament Christian are not to limit God to ten percent of their income. As for finding a church that does not teach tithing, I only know of one and that's over 50 years of church attendence. This church has a membership of about 15 people and takes in more than $4,000.00 per month. Tithing was a part of the law just as keeping the Sabbath was. Neither is found in the New Testament at all. Many communist are known to give back 90 of their income to their cause. Is not the cause of Christ a better reason to give; so why limit our God to ten Percent. As for finding another church that does not teach tithing it will be very slim. Many ministers are either not studied enough to know this truth or they are afarid they will cut off the churches funds. It took me many years but I finnally learned to look to God for my help and not to man and his ten percent.

Just find a good church and don't worry about them teaching Tithe, it's not a sin to pay tithe.

I hope I have helped.

Normann

Tithing is an old covenant law that was abolished on the cross... Now that tithing has been abolished we are supposed to give generously, cheerfully, sacrificially, and consistently.

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Tithing started hundreds of years b4 the law.

Andrew said:

Tithing started hundreds of years b4 the law.

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Not *as* a law . Not that *you* are saying that it is a law . But , there are those that do and then bring up that idea .

New_Wineskin said:

Not *as* a law . Not that *you* are saying that it is a law . But , there are those that do and then bring up that idea .

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Exactly. Not as a law. So why can't Christians tithe not as a law? Or why do Christians who are against tithing keep bringing in the law when we are not even talking about the law?

Andrew said:

Exactly. Not as a law. So why can't Christians tithe not as a law? Or why do Christians who are against tithing keep bringing in the law when we are not even talking about the law?

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I don't recall seeing a thread that was about tithing where a good portion of the pro-tithers didn't bring in the Scriptures as why people other than themselves should tithe . People have been deceived by others by their saying that tithing is a biblical command without taking in all of the passages on the subject . When people actually do what they say they do and look into the Scriptures concerning this topic and discover that they have been brainwashed by these people , there is a desire to let others know and be set free from that law .

It is the same as for any other doctrine that people have used to enslave others . When people are set free , they wish to let others know .

I have no problem whatsoever with Christians attempting to go with as much of the Law as they wish . It is when they do so and try to place it on others or myself that I have a problem .

Of course , there is also the typical "bible believer" reason ... if others aren't following the "bible" completely and accurately , they are in falsehood and people find a reason to make sure that those others know about it . There are those that have the law of not being under the Mosaic Law . As far as I am concerned , those who do so want people under the law - just not that those specific ones .

So , there are many reasons for doing so . But , given that at least one person will come in and state in one way or the other that "tithing" is required , there is opportunity to bring in the actual requirements concerning it .

When the Lord puts in your heart the joyfulness of "giving", and this is how it is to be acted upon, as a cheerful giver.. it just might turn out to be "the tenth" or much greater, because of the cheerfulness and blessing that comes to your heart and life. Law has nothing to do with it..it's what God has purposed in your heart. We will probably never stop the church from calling it a tithe, or stuck on the "tenth", what are we going to call it if we can do more? Too much doctrine has been wrapped around it..and it's hard to break old dogma, even when the spiritual principal has been understood. But to find a church that does not teach it..I wish you the best. Teaching about giving was Jesus message.. not percentages.

Trish1947 said:

When the Lord puts in your heart the joyfulness of "giving", and this is how it is to be acted upon, as a cheerful giver.. it just might turn out to be "the tenth" or much greater, because of the cheerfulness and blessing that comes to your heart and life. Law has nothing to do with it..it's what God has purposed in your heart.

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I agree , completely .

We will probably never stop the church from calling it a tithe, or stuck on the "tenth", what are we going to call it if we can do more? Too much doctrine has been wrapped around it..and it's hard to break old dogma, even when the spiritual principal has been understood.

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I completely agee , again .

But to find a church that does not teach it..I wish you the best. Teaching about giving was Jesus message.. not percentages.

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I wouldn't attempt to find one ( whether teaching it correctly , incorrectly , or not at all ) . That has too much doctrine wrapped around it as well . But , I agree that finding a group that does not consider it a command to financially support a group's activities is difficult . However , they are becoming more common as more get away from the unnecessary overhead that usually brings the groups to make such commands a part of their doctrine .

Andrew said:

Exactly. Not as a law. So why can't Christians tithe not as a law? Or why do Christians who are against tithing keep bringing in the law when we are not even talking about the law?

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The problem with your connection between Abrahams tithe, and our tithe is two fold - first Abraham tithed once on stuff he captured, no mention of currency, second, we are followers of Jesus and called to imitate Jesus not Abraham.

The tithe as it is taught today in churches is a fasle teaching, essentially a "law of man".........and we all know how Jesus felt about man made laws.

I find it interesting on the SFPC forum that the mere mention of the word Torah, and instantly many members on here come out of the woodwork to chastize and preach "were not under the Law" "the Law was bad" on and on and on. But assert that the tithe is no longer relevant today, and some of you will fight tooth and nail to keep that law, or assert that is it a "law" for today........I find that very intersting how "anti-Torah" Christians find a way to replace that with laws they make up themselves............

Trish1947 said:

...We will probably never stop the church from calling it a tithe, or stuck on the "tenth"...

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This is good; so start your giving at about 10 1/2 percent (not tithe) and move it on up to a higher percent as God blesses you. I don't keep very close account of mine, just to make sure I am giving a good protion to the work of Christ. I too do not believe Tithe is a required item for the Christian. Where your treasure is there is your heart! Turn that around and it will say... WHERE EVER YOUR HEART IS, THAT'S WHERE YOU WILL PUT YOUR TREASURE!

This is fun talking with other about the Bible

Normann

tithing is required by God at least 10 % anything else is your offering and alms. check out malachi 3. God tells us in his word that we are to tithe. you'd be surprise how much God will bless you when you start to tithe.

Andyman_1970 said:

The problem with your connection between Abrahams tithe, and our tithe is two fold - first Abraham tithed once on stuff he captured, no mention of currency,

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I do not believe that Abraham tithed only once cos I dont believe God blessed him only one time and that he was grateful only one time. As for the currency thing, again, it's like saying there was no internet then so internet is wrong today.

If you look at Jacob's vow:

20Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. 22And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

Again, I believe that Jacob tithed every time God blessed him. "Of all that you give me" means everytime God gave Him something, he tithed on it. It cannot be that he waited until the end of his life when all the blessings stopped, then he tithed.

second, we are followers of Jesus and called to imitate Jesus not Abraham.

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No one's talking about imitating Abraham. I'm showing you that tithing was instituted long before the law. It is an economic principle of God even from the time of the Garden of Eden -- one tree out of the entire garden belonged to God. Right up to Jesus being the firstfruits -- making us the lump holy too. It's a principle which you fail to see cos you are blinded by the nitty gritty of the law of tithing.

The tithe as it is taught today in churches is a fasle teaching, essentially a "law of man".........and we all know how Jesus felt about man made laws.

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On the contrary, the teaching not to tithe is false teaching.

I find it interesting on the SFPC forum that the mere mention of the word Torah, and instantly many members on here come out of the woodwork to chastize and preach "were not under the Law" "the Law was bad" on and on and on. But assert that the tithe is no longer relevant today, and some of you will fight tooth and nail to keep that law, or assert that is it a "law" for today........I find that very intersting how "anti-Torah" Christians find a way to replace that with laws they make up themselves............

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Again, you miss the point. We're not talking about tithing under law. Straw-man argument.

You accuse us of making up laws to replace the Torah. Please name some examples. What laws have P/Cs here given?

Andrew said:

I do not believe that Abraham tithed only once cos I dont believe God blessed him only one time and that he was grateful only one time. As for the currency thing, again, it's like saying there was no internet then so internet is wrong today.

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So you assertion is that tithing = blessing? Chapter and verse please.

As for the currency issue, I guess it’s ok to deviate from what God intended in His Word.

Andrew said:

If you look at Jacob's vow:

20Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. 22And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

Again, I believe that Jacob tithed every time God blessed him. "Of all that you give me" means everytime God gave Him something, he tithed on it. It cannot be that he waited until the end of his life when all the blessings stopped, then he tithed.

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Thanks for the example, but I’m not a follower of Jacob, I’m a follower of Jesus. I’m glad Jacob tithed on his increase, but that is not a command – Biblical context is the key here.

Andrew said:

No one's talking about imitating Abraham. I'm showing you that tithing was instituted long before the law.

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And Abraham tithed what he captured, no mention that he gave currency (which was available at that time) – so you’re not even imitating Abrahams tithe properly.

Andrew said:

It is an economic principle of God even from the time of the Garden of Eden -- one tree out of the entire garden belonged to God.

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Chapter and verse please, where only one tree was God’s. The Psalms tell us “the whole world is God’s and everything in it.”

Andrew said:

Right up to Jesus being the firstfruits -- making us the lump holy too. It's a principle which you fail to see cos you are blinded by the nitty gritty of the law of tithing.

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I guess I fail to see it because I don’t spiritualize the Text with something that is not there like you seem to be doing – also known as eisegesis.

Andrew said:

On the contrary, the teaching not to tithe is false teaching.

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Chapter and verse then where we as Gentile followers of Jesus are to tithe? Oh also while you’re at it, chapter an verse where God commanded in His Holy infallible, inspired Word where He wanted the tithe (either the Law or Abraham) to be switched from what His Word defines it as to something else (in this case currency).

I prefer to view the Scriptures in the context they were given, not lift them out and create some "economic principle" to suit a particular point of view - if you can't see the false teaching then I don't know what you tell you.

Andrew said:

You accuse us of making up laws to replace the Torah. Please name some examples. What laws have P/Cs here given?

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Tithing and the kind of music one listens to are the two most recent I’ve discussed on here – the implication being “if you don’t tithe, or don’t listen to Christian music you’re not a “good” Christian”………..those are man made rules, traditions of man.

Whether or not tithing is for today, should you base which church you attend on tithing?

I mean, I disagree with the pastor of the church I attend on a good handful of things, but must you agree with everything in order to have fellowship? If not, why tithing? So long as tithing is not an idol in a church, I don't think you should be so hard pressed on it. I think if you find a church that is temperate, whose emphasis is on Christ, that should be enough. (Well, I also believe in going where Yahweh has called you, but that's another discussion) A special requirement for you may be a church that lets you give without letting your left hand know what the right is doing, rather than one who sets up a quota with envelopes and all such, but this would be the majority, not a minority.

As a bottom line, if the church lets you give as you believe you ought to, why is the pastor's opinion about tithing important, so long as it is not an idol?

He put me back together said:

As a bottom line, if the church lets you give as you believe you ought to, why is the pastor's opinion about tithing important, so long as it is not an idol?

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Because some churches will not allow you into 'membership' if you don't tithe, or won't allow you to take any ministry or leadership positions. It sounds silly, but I've been there.

andry said:

Because some churches will not allow you into 'membership' if you don't tithe, or won't allow you to take any ministry or leadership positions. It sounds silly, but I've been there.

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Some will even from the pulpit say your "robbing God"............been there heard that.

andry said:

Because some churches will not allow you into 'membership' if you don't tithe, or won't allow you to take any ministry or leadership positions. It sounds silly, but I've been there.

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I addressed that already

me said:

A special requirement for you may be a church that lets you give without letting your left hand know what the right is doing, rather than one who sets up a quota with envelopes and all such, but this would be the majority, not a minority.

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