Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Please take a look the list of verses I posted to you a little more closely. You will notice the words "free" and "will" and "choose" in there. These things cannot be if we did not have any ability to choose freely, etc.Hello Jason.
Thanks for your reply.
Free will is a philosophical term.
You may have a choice to make at times, but you are never, purely free to
ever choose the Christ. The Holy Spirit must intervene at every stage of
your conversion and throughout your life. Lest you proceed, other than by
the Grace of our Lord.
No. People were born again spiritually even in the Old Testament. There are many verses on this particular topic. Please do a search on the words "circumicison" and "heart" or "circmicise" and "heart" at blue letter bible.Are we not talking though about those who will inherit the promises of God as saved persons who believe in Christ?
Regeneration is part of the process in a person's life that sets them on the road to justification by faith. the true beginning from God's pov, is that those He foreknew in love , he predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. To be conformed in that way means to be glorified.
All those whom He foreknew, He predestined. Before they existed, God knew them intimately.
Truth is all of their days and all of their ways are designed by the Creator beforehand.
To the saved this should be of a great comfort, it takes out the lie of someone losing their salvation.
Psalm 139
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.
Ah. So one must understand in order to have faith.That is just ridiculous. I am saying the HEARING is where they actually HEAR with their ears, SEE with their eyes, and UNDERSTAND with their heart whereby the receive the seed of the Word into their heart. In other words, the hearing here is synomous with BELIEF in God's Word. Many times those who came to the faith had it preached to them. So they heard the message of God's Word and then believed (Thereby their faith came by hearing the Word of God). The context here is talking about faith in God's Word by hearing it and it is not talking about unbelief in hearing God's Word.
...
There is a big difference between simply revealing truth and showing someone the thoughts of God.I do not see God revealing a truth to someone as regeneration. God revealed truth to a pagan Pharoah about Sarai. It did not take a regeneration. God can reveal the truth to a person by His Spirit and it is up to the person to decide on whether or not they want to submit to God.
The doctrine of total depravity simply means that every part of ones being has been corrupted by sin.If a person is totally depraved and unable to come to God, then that means man has no free will to come to God and God
That is the doctrine of monergistic regeneration as believed by Calvinists.God is the One who must regenerate a person so as to believe.
"Off the hook" is hardly the case. God is not responsible for the fact that natural men cannot understand. Their condition is a result of the ongoing wrath of God against sinners that is going on even now in this age according to the early part of the book of Romans.Which would mean man is off the hook in his decision in accepting or rejecting Christ in this life.
God's drawing can certainly include the giving of a new nature to a person. Why not?A regeneration is simply a change of one's spirit by the Holy Spirit. They receive a new nature by God. Regeneration is not God drawing a person to believe and regeneration is not awakening of some truth to a person.
I believe that the scriptures do teach that men can resist the drawing of God for quite some time. Paul seems to have kicked against the goads for a while before God drug him into the Kingdom of God in spite of himself. The same can be said for me for what it's worth.A person can reject God's drawing and a person can reject God's truth. ...
Yes, a person can hear, see, and understand a book on mechanics. That does not mean God has given them any special ability to do so. But can a person refuse to hear, see, and understand a book on mechanics? Yes, most definitely. It is no different with God's Word.Ah. So one must understand in order to have faith.
There is a big difference between simply revealing truth and showing someone the thoughts of God.
All I know is what it says.
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." 1 Corinthians 2:14
If you choose to call it something other than the hotly debated word "regeneration" I have no problem with that.
So long as we understand that God is the one who reveals truth and that He does not reveal all truth to all men - So long as we agree that there is no one who seeks God and understands among natural men - and So long as we understand and agree that God is the author of our faith I have no problem with you not calling it regeneration.
The doctrine of total depravity simply means that every part of ones being has been corrupted by sin.
Being able to come to God for salvation has nothing to do with whether the man stands guilty before God and is subject to His wrath. There are plenty of other sins that will get him to Hell other than just disbelief in the gospel.
That is the doctrine of monergistic regeneration as believed by Calvinists.
"Off the hook" is hardly the case. God is not responsible for the fact that natural men cannot understand. Their condition is a result of the ongoing wrath of God against sinners that is going on even now in this age according to the early part of the book of Romans.
God's drawing can certainly include the giving of a new nature to a person. Why not?
I believe that the scriptures do teach that men can resist the drawing of God for quite some time. Paul seems to have kicked against the goads for a while before God drug him into the Kingdom of God in spite of himself. The same can be said for me for what it's worth.
But Jesus was quite clear that all that the Father gives to Him will eventually come to Him. This is the doctrine of irresistible grace not that men (even elect men) cannot resist God in any way either before conversion or after conversion.
P.S.
I've got to go away for a bit. Hold off with any more conversation or it may well get lost in the shuffle.
If one understands, then why is faith required?Yes, a person can hear, see, and understand a book on mechanics. That does not mean God has given them any special ability to do so. But can a person refuse to hear, see, and understand a book on mechanics? Yes, most definitely. It is no different with God's Word.
....
Faith is belief in God's Word. Hearing, seeing, and understanding is a part of a person's choice of faith or belief in God's Word. A person can choose to be open or close minded to God's Word. That is what Matthew 13:15 is saying. Understanding with the heart is realizing God is good and we have sinned against Him and we need His salvation.If one understands, then why is faith required?
But your statement here does not in any way SHOW us that you are actually right about such a verse, though.If folks would actually look up the verses that God is no respecter, they would probably stop misusing them.
Probably.
So faith comes by believing what God says?Faith is belief in God's Word. Hearing, seeing, and understanding is a part of a person's choice of faith or belief in God's Word. A person can choose to be open or close minded to God's Word. That is what Matthew 13:15 is saying. Understanding with the heart is realizing God is good and we have sinned against Him and we need His salvation.
...
Doesn't matter. The rest of Scriptures is clear is that salvation is for all mankind freely and openly. For God so loved the WORLD. Not some of the world, etc. God is the propitation not only for our sins (believers), but for the sins of the WHOLE world.I've always thought it's significant that this verse doesn't read "Everyone is called, but few are chosen."
You're right. But I would hope that it would encourage people to look them up so they can see for themselves that they are abusing the text.But your statement here does not in any way SHOW us that you are actually right about such a verse, though.
....
LOL. Sure, I've heard that one before--choose the verses that seem appealing and discard the ones that don't "fit."Doesn't matter. The rest of Scriptures is clear is that salvation is for all mankind freely and openly. ...
If I say that Christ died for those who will believe, am I lying?Also, a Calvinist cannot preach salvation in Jesus Christ to a crowd of people openly. Why? Because some in those crowd cannot be regenerated and saved according to God. Salvation is not for some of them. So a Calvnist has to add a clause of exception if they are regenerated by God outside their own ability if they are going to be saved or not. In other words, he would be lying to some that they could have salvation unless he is clear that some in the crowd cannot be saved.
....
And you don't do the same? What about the verses I brought up?LOL. Sure, I've heard that one before--choose the verses that seem appealing and discard the ones that don't "fit."
According to God's Word, if you believe in Calvinism in the fact that you think man cannot come to God, then it would not be a true statement and would be techincally a lie, ... yes.If I say that Christ died for those who will believe, am I lying?
About our Christ is written In Isaiah 53I've always thought it's significant that this verse doesn't read "Everyone is called, but few are chosen."
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?