Lines of Evidence

Doveaman · Jan 22, 2015

Split Rock said:
Why don't you answer the question first? You are the one asserting this "re-creation" idea.

It's not merely an idea, it has biblical support. The resurrection of Jesus supports this idea. The life of Jesus was re-created after he died. The life of Adam was also re-created after the death of prehistoric life. Perhaps Adam was re-created from the same prehistoric creature from which the apes were created. This would explain the resemblance.

Split Rock said:
You are clearly deluded. The theory of evolution is the only scientific explanation for the diversity and distribution of life on this planet.

The biblical record explained the distribution of life many years before evolution theory:

"From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us." - (Acts 17:26-27).

You cannot change or replace history.

Loudmouth · Jan 22, 2015

Doveaman said:
It's not merely an idea, it has biblical support.

Where is the evidence that supports it?

The biblical record explained the distribution of life many years before evolution theory:

"From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us." - (Acts 17:26-27).

You cannot change or replace history.

How would anyone use those verses to explain the distribution of placental mammals and monotremes, just as one explanation? How does it explain the Wallace Line with reference to species distribution?

Wallace Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does this explain the nested hierarchy?

Split Rock · Jan 22, 2015

Doveaman said:
It's not merely an idea, it has biblical support. The resurrection of Jesus supports this idea. The life of Jesus was re-created after he died. The life of Adam was also re-created after the death of prehistoric life. Perhaps Adam was re-created from the same prehistoric creature from which the apes were created. This would explain the resemblance.

People claim "biblical support" for just about anything.... including racism and slavery. Personally, i find it a very thin argument that because Jesus was resurrected then it follows that the earth was re-created.

Doveaman said:
The biblical record explained the distribution of life many years before evolution theory:

"From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us." - (Acts 17:26-27).

That quote has nothing to do with the diversity and distribution of life on earth in general. At best, it only talks about the distribution of mankind. I am talking about all life, not just man.

Doveaman said:
You cannot change or replace history.

That's your job.

bhsmte · Jan 22, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Loudmouth said:

Where is the evidence that supports it?

Click to expand...

Likely because the bible says so.

And as Doveman has already stated, that is not circular reasoning.

Loudmouth · Jan 22, 2015

bhsmte said:
Likely because the bible says so.

And as Doveman has already stated, that is not circular reasoning.

Perhaps I should draw the circle for him and see if he can explain his way out of it.

Kylie · Jan 22, 2015

stevevw said:
You just dont have any imagination or a sense of humor.

Of course I have a sense of humour. I married my husband, didn't I?

stevevw · Jan 23, 2015

KTS said:
Of course I have a sense of humour. I married my husband, didn't I?

lol

SkyWriting · Jan 24, 2015

Split Rock said:
Personally, i find it a very thin argument that because Jesus was resurrected then it follows that the earth was re-created.

The correct message is that it will be.
Good doctrine has multiple references.

Split Rock · Jan 24, 2015

SkyWriting said:
The correct message is that it will be.
Good doctrine has multiple references.

According to Doveaman, the earth has already been "re-created" many times in the past. Are you saying it hasn't? Which one of you knowers of Ultimate Truth should I listen to?

SkyWriting · Jan 24, 2015

Split Rock said:
According to Doveaman, the earth has already been "re-created" many times in the past. Are you saying it hasn't? Which one of you knowers of Ultimate Truth should I listen to?

History is always revised by the teller,
and prophets are pretty rare as well.
You should stick to actionable advice
you can check out yourself.

"Knock and it shall be opened unto you"
is a good one.

bhsmte · Jan 24, 2015

SkyWriting said:
History is always revised by the teller,
and prophets are pretty rare as well.
You should stick to actionable advice
you can check out yourself.

"Knock and it shall be opened unto you"
is a good one.

History is often revised by the teller.

Also, history is often completely made up by the teller as well.

Doveaman · Jan 24, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Where is the evidence that supports it?

The biblical history is the evidence. You cannot change history.

How would anyone use those verses to explain the distribution of placental mammals and monotremes, just as one explanation? How does it explain the Wallace Line with reference to species distribution?

Wallace Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does this explain the nested hierarchy?

The verses dont have to explain any of this. The verses just have to contradict your explanation. Your explanation isnt consistent with the history. The idea that humans evolved from a population of apes contradicts the history:

"From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth" - (Acts 17:26).

Doveaman · Jan 24, 2015

Split Rock said:
People claim "biblical support" for just about anything.... including racism and slavery.

and evolution theory.

Personally, i find it a very thin argument that because Jesus was resurrected then it follows that the earth was re-created.

That is not the argument. The argument is that the resurrection of Jesus gives support to the idea that Adams life (Mans life) could have been restored (re-created) from a previous life form, rather than evolved from apes. The verse Let us make man in our image suggests that the man might have existed in a previous form before he was re-created from dust in Gods image.

That quote has nothing to do with the diversity and distribution of life on earth in general. At best, it only talks about the distribution of mankind. I am talking about all life, not just man.

"From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth" - (Acts 17:26).

The historical biblical record shows that humans descended from one man (Adam), which reveals a big flaw in your evolution theory, destroying its credibility.

You need a new theory that is consistent with the history, because you cannot change history.

FredVB · Jan 24, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Then why do we find fossil and living species with a mixture of features from different groups of animals? We see the very things you now claim that a Creator would not do. For example, the monotremes (e.g. platypus) have a mixture of features from placental mammals and reptiles. They have rudimentary mammary glands and fur, but they also lay reptile-like eggs. They also have a cloaca like a reptile instead of separate digestive and reproductive tracts like we see in placental mammals. Evolution explains this quite easily, but it seems that it falsifies a Creator by your own admission.
Why is it expected that these groups would fit into a nested hierarchy? Cars don't fit into a nested hierarchy. Paintings don't fit into a nested hierarchy. Buildings don't fit into a nested hierarchy. So why would life?
Then tell us why a creator would be limiited to a nested hierarchy. Why would God be limited to only the combinations of features that evolution would produce?
What features would a fossil need in order to fill the gap between humans and apes? Until you answer this question, you can claim no gaps.

These fossils are all fakes? Really?

You claim you don't reject fossil evidence, and then immediately dismiss them all as fakes while ignoring them.
Where is your evidence that transitionals would be unstable?

You just don't see what I have been saying, or don't want to believe what my position would really be. I did not say at all that fossils are all, or even mostly, fake. I can recognize the fossil skulls too, I have been in classes showing those too. I can see fossil humans which I can say includes Neanderthal people are with what you displayed shown from the skull identified with the designation F and onward from that, including babies' skulls, the other skulls are representing other hominid and ape creatures. I see no actual transition in that.

Yes I can see there would be organization from the Creator by design into groups according to feature, this is not from being limited, but with being orderly for the Creator's own purposes, there is logic to that thinking, the evidence is just what there is that is interpreted one way by you and others and this way by me and others seeing the same way. So we don't have something conclusive just with that.

The monotremes, for your example, are their own category of mammals,their features are their own with being mammal, they are not reptilian, what they have would be recognized being distinct from reptiles.

There is no falsification of the Creator.

Doveaman · Jan 24, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Perhaps I should draw the circle for him and see if he can explain his way out of it.

The circle does not represent my reasoning at all. It represents your denial of the God who inspired the Bible.

Notice the sun in the middle of the circle. Now imagine thats the God you are ignoring.

My reasoning is straight line reasoning:

but why believe the Bible --> The Bible is infallible --> but how do you know its infallible --> The Bible is the word of God --> but how can you be sure its the word of God? --> Because God Himself tells us so.

Just because you lack divine experience does not mean it doesnt exists for others. It only means you are inexperienced and needs to get out more.

bhsmte · Jan 24, 2015

There is no falsification of the Creator.

Your creator is unfalsifiable.

So is virtually any God concept.

Doveaman · Jan 24, 2015

bhsmte said:
Your creator is unfalsifiable.

So is virtually any God concept.

I think what he means is that God cannot be proven false, especially by science since science never proves anything to be correct.

Doveaman · Jan 24, 2015

Split Rock said:
According to Doveaman, the earth has already been "re-created" many times in the past. Are you saying it hasn't? Which one of you knowers of Ultimate Truth should I listen to?

You should listen to the Bible. I never claimed my theory was Ultimate Truth. I am simply showing that my theory has greater biblical historical support than yours.

The only way your evolution theory works is by denying the biblical history. But you cannot change history.

SkyWriting · Jan 24, 2015

bhsmte said:
Your creator is unfalsifiable.
So is virtually any God concept.

God is Spirit.
Those are the tools you need first.

lewiscalledhimmaster · Jan 24, 2015

bhsmte said:
<edit> unfalsifiable.

<edit> God concept.

We doubt, and we lose faith, for there are many arguments against the existence of God -- which sometimes take away our hope, but we are sealed by our heavenly Father and overcome as Jesus overcome all of his enemies -- who rail against the "light and the truth" of the gospel. (I'm still waiting for your response on the thread: How Do You Know What You Know? ---> here )

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