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There are probably two different Rahabs. The Rahab of Matthew 1:5 married Salmon of the tribe of Judah, was the mother of Boaz and ancestress to King David, all the kings of Judah, and Jesus. The Talmud states that Rahab of Jericho married Joshua Bin Nun, a descendant of Joseph and was ancestress to Huldah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.Did rahab lie for israels armies? And secondly was she STILL in Christs' lineage and honored as such?
It says not such thing.The text of 1Sam 28 states explicitly that God chose not to allow His prophets to speak to Saul
You invent nonexistent verses in the Bible to suite your argument.- so there is no way to then argue "except through witches given the power over dead saints".
Rahab had the ability to lie - in real life - and could do so without God giving her supernatural ability.
The witch had no power at all to conjure up dead saints - all she could do was to be duped by her own familiar spirit who would also dupe the unwitting guests into believing she had that power.
The text itself sets the context saying that those who work with familiar spirits to call up the dead were an abomination to God and were under death sentence AND the text tells us that God strictly forbade any of HIS prophets to talk to Saul which is why Saul had to resort "to a witch" as if Satan could "Get around God".
God did not give Satan any power in Job 1 and 2 that he did not already have - and God did not grant any super powers to the witch -- nor did God grant any super powers to Rahab so she could lie.
All them used their existing abilities to do what they did. In the case of the witch of Endore - she used a familiar spirit's ability to "mutter and peep" as the bible says.
No it is not. God is not going around granting anyone the power to communicate with the dead - because the dead know not anything. neither does God grant the wooden idols of the pagans - super powers.
God is not in the business of making Satan's realm of deception "appear to work".
In Job 1 Satan does NOT complain that God "failed to give Satan powers" but rather that God has set a hedge a wall about Job and Satan with all of his supernatural power cannot get passed it.
Very different from "please grant me some super powers so I can do damage".
in Christ,
Bob
There are probably two different Rahabs. The Rahab of Matthew 1:5 married Salmon of the tribe of Judah, was the mother of Boaz and ancestress to King David, all the kings of Judah, and Jesus. The Talmud states that Rahab of Jericho married Joshua Bin Nun, a descendant of Joseph and was ancestress to Huldah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.
That an unsaved person can choose to use their own real abilities in a way that serves God is not in question.
That God is in inclined to supernaturally enable witches and satanists to make it appear that their deceptive false claims are legit - is not even remotely a teaching of scripture.
The text of 1Sam 28 states explicitly that God chose not to allow His prophets to speak to Saul - so there is no way to then argue "except through witches given the power over dead saints".
in Christ,
Bob
You appear to be making my point.It says not such thing.
Here is what the Bible ACTUALLY says:He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets.
1 Samuel 28:6
I have to agree, I don't believe in necromancy in general, but......this witch called up samuel and wasn't shocked when it happened. She was expecting such powers.
I agree that she expected to have that power - because this is the job of her familiar spirit -- to lie to her and make her believe she has that power.
But neither the demons nor Satan have the power to bring up the dead.
In fact in Matt 4 they do not even have the power to create life. Satan challenges Christ to turn stone into bread if in fact He is Gos the Son. God alone can create life.
in Christ,
Bob
God has "allowed necromancy" zillions of times - just as murder has been "allowed". But God is not engaging in it - nor is he working with witches to make sure their false claims will come true.
This may seem like an odd idea - but it is true.
This is not a simple case of "God approves of all that is recorded" rather according to you this is a case of God coming to the aid of the witch and not simply "allowing something" but rather God working to cause the very thing the witch claims to be able to do.
Vastly different from "Allowing the witch to do what witches do".
When Rahab lies - she needs no supernatural ability from God to do so.
when Satan lies he has no need to pray to God so that he will be enabled to lie.
The witch in 1Sam 28 does not pray to God to give her the power to raise up dead saints and "bring up for Saul" whomever he wishes because her familiar spirit has already duped her into thinking she has that "power". God is not in the business if supernatural support and aid to witches.
God did not act the part of Satan in 1Sam 28 and make the witch's claims appear to come true - as much as this may surprise some people.
in Christ,
Bob
By this time Samuel had already anointed David as king - and by going to the witch Saul had fully cut himself off from God as even 1Chronicles 10 points out. Satan knew that. His servant - his familiar spirit and the witch were working together with what Satan already knew.
By contrast the text says that when it came to GOD's OWN prophets -- (so not witches and demons) -- God forbade THEM to minister to Saul, or to speak to Him at all. This is what the text says itself.
One of the dangers to this whole idea of inventing a Bible doctrine about "an immortal soul of man" (a statement never found in all of scripture) is that it leads to appeals to prayers to the dead or conjuring up the dead by witches as IF this was something God was working to cause to happen so as to honor and fulfill the false claims of the witches.
That is the clue for the bible student that you are wayyyy down the wrong road once you have to make those kinds of arguments.
By contrast God said "The living know that they will die -- but the dead know not anything" Eccl 9:5 "in that very day their thoughts perish" Ps 146:4 -- no wonder then both Christ and the Sadducees are in agreement on the point "god is NOT the God of the dead" Matt 22.
in Christ,
Bob
I thought that you were implying that God directly forbid Samuel to speak to Saul thus the spirit speaking to the witch and Saul could not have been the real Samuel.You appear to be making my point.
Where do you make your point?
Saul is aware of the problem as he says "God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do.
Saul resorts to the witch's familiar spirit because God will not answer him by prophets or dreams.
Yes samuel had anointed the king already, but that does not make Him a king yet, the old King must know of the anointing and know that He is being replaced. That was what this prophecy was about.
I thought that you were implying that God directly forbid Samuel to speak to Saul thus the spirit speaking to the witch and Saul could not have been the real Samuel.
By this time Samuel had already anointed David as king - and by going to the witch Saul had fully cut himself off from God as even 1Chronicles 10 points out. Satan knew that. His servant - his familiar spirit and the witch were working together with what Satan already knew.
By contrast the text says that when it came to GOD's OWN prophets -- (so not witches and demons) -- God forbade THEM to minister to Saul, or to speak to Him at all. This is what the text says itself.
One of the dangers to this whole idea of inventing a Bible doctrine about "an immortal soul of man" (a statement never found in all of scripture) is that it leads to appeals to prayers to the dead or conjuring up the dead by witches as IF this was something God was working to cause to happen so as to honor and fulfill the false claims of the witches.
That is the clue for the bible student that you are wayyyy down the wrong road once you have to make those kinds of arguments.
By contrast God said "The living know that they will die -- but the dead know not anything" Eccl 9:5 "in that very day their thoughts perish" Ps 146:4 -- no wonder then both Christ and the Sadducees are in agreement on the point "god is NOT the God of the dead" Matt 22.
1Chronicles 10:13 says that God became Saul's enemy "because" he went to a MEDIUM (a witch - not Samuel) to "inquire of IT".
The familiar spirit of that witch knew that Saul was crossing a line - and a dead Saul - would mean turn over of the kingdom to the one who was already anointed to be the next King.
Saul never "relinquished" anything - he died as the pawn of the familiar spirit he spoke with in 1Samuel 28 -- "conjured up" by the witch just as the Chapter says.
in Christ,
Bob
1 Chr 21:1 "the adversary" as shown by 2Sam 24:11 chronicles doesn't say He was an enemy.
1Chronicles 10
13 So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the Lord, because of the word of the Lord which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it, 14 and did not inquire of the Lord. Therefore He killed him and turned the kingdom to David the son of Jesse.
God did not consider this to be "inquiring of the Lord" -- how many times in the Bible is it not considered "inquiring of the Lord" - to go to a living prophet and seek counsel?
No wonder the familiar spirit of the witch pretending to be Samuel says in 1Samuel 28:16 Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?”
the "man has an immortal soul" idea is not getting as much help from the witch or the witch's familiar spirit as they might have at first imagined.
in Christ,
Bob
I said --No wonder the familiar spirit of the witch pretending to be Samuel says in 1Samuel 28:16 Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
You keep on insisting that the witch does not work via a familiar spirit - but rather via God or via Samuel.
That is your choice - not mine.
The fact that the demons already knew that Samuel anointed David as the next king - is no news for them or us.
The fact that the demons knew that Saul was "going to a medium to inquire of IT -- instead of inquiring of the LORD" is no news to the demons or to those who read the text of scripture.
The fact that God turned Saul over to destruction for doing such a thing - is written clearly in 1Chron 10:13-14. Pretty hard to be confused there.
The fact that the witches work through the agency of familiar spirits is well documented in the Bible. No news there for demons or the readers of the Bible.
in Christ,
Bob
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