Let's talk about fat.

pfcreed · May 21, 2014

If I felt my wife was too fat, and I wanted her to lose weight I would put my focus into working out in hopes that she will become interested in it. I would start making healthy meals in hopes she would find something she likes. I wouldn't kick in the door and call her a fatbody.
Hopefully peoples attractions mature with their relationships. After 2 kids and breastfeeding I dont expect her to have the 17 year old body she had when we met. My wife is a beautifull mature looking woman, her body is like marble, the value is in the imperfections.

mkgal1 · May 21, 2014

There are a lot of common myths about weight gain/weight loss----the biggest, I think, is that it's *simply* about calories in--calories expended. There's actually a movie out right now that dispels a lot of myths (I haven't seen it yet):

Watch a Trailer for the Obesity Documentary Fed Up - Video Interlude - Eater National

http://drhyman.com/blog/2013/02/22/katie-couric-with-mark-hyman-md-on-katie/

seeingeyes · May 21, 2014

mkgal1 said:
There are a lot of common myths about weight gain/weight loss----the biggest, I think, is that it's *simply* about calories in--calories expended. There's actually a movie out right now that dispels a lot of myths (I haven't seen it yet):

Watch a Trailer for the Obesity Documentary Fed Up - Video Interlude - Eater National

Katie Couric with Mark Hyman MD on Katie - Dr. Mark Hyman

Both videos speak to the idea that certain foods may increase appetite. But no one gains fat without eating more calories than their body needs. That's the bottom line.

mkgal1 · May 21, 2014

seeingeyes said:
Both videos speak to the idea that certain foods may increase appetite. But no one gains fat without eating more calories than their body needs. That's the bottom line.

It's not that simple. Some people have slowed their metabolism by not eating enough....and in order to lose, they need to increase their food intake (properly).

I’ve been reading Jonathan Bailor’s new (and already) New York Times best-selling book, The Calorie Myth. (Look for an adaptation from senior editor Anjula Razdan and Bailor, along with a Q&A and podcast, coming in late August for our September issue.)

If you get a chance to pick it up, please do so. There are some themes you’ll recognize from the pages of Experience Life, such as:

not all calories are created equal
weight loss doesn’t just boil down to calories in and calories out
different foods send different signals to the body and alter our genes (nutrigenomics)
sugar and flour are the problem NOT fat
and overcoming food addictions can’t be accomplished with an “everything in moderation” mentality of the Standard American Diet.

Bailor’s fine work follows similar messages from other best-selling books, blogs, lectures, and papers by doctors such as Mark Hyman, Robert Lustig, David Perlmutter, to name a few.~http://experiencelife.com/coming-clean/tag/mark-hyman/

seeingeyes · May 21, 2014

mkgal1 said:
It's not that simple. Some people have slowed their metabolism by not eating enough....and in order to lose, they need to increase their food intake (properly).

There is no person with excess fat who got that way from not eating enough.

I realize that there are "best practices", but there are also a lot of people who complicate the matter in order to cash in, too.

mkgal1 · May 21, 2014

seeingeyes said:
There is no person with excess fat who got that way from not eating enough.

I realize that there are "best practices", but there are also a lot of people who complicate the matter in order to cash in, too.

Maybe I am an anamoly, then......but I doubt it. I slowed my metabolism down by poor eating habits in my 20's (not eating enough.....*always* skipping breakfast and lunch and only having a small dinner).

I've recently lost weight by regularly eating 3 meals plus two snacks each day. I don't think I've ever eaten this much in my life (nor have I ever had weight fall off like it has, either).

mkgal1 · May 21, 2014

I can't copy just the relevant points for some reason......but here is a study done by Dr. Wayne Miller.... where the conclusion was that there was no relationship between energy intake and adiposity [body fat]:

http://general.utpb.edu/fac/eldridge_j/kine6362/Readings/Nut3.pdf

Wandering Cat Lady · May 22, 2014

What should I do? I should encourage a healthy *lifestyle* but nothing derogatory should be said, in my opinion. Because, very simply, negativity never helped to motivate someone on an ongoing basis. Sure, you might be able to bully them into doing something healthier, but it won't last and it won't be a real change because it's for the wrong reason. People already feel bad enough about themselves and their weight/size, we don't need to be reminding the one closest to us that we see their imperfections.

My husband has gained around 30lbs since I met him. For a while he was looking pretty "heavy" but I also gained about that same amount of weight, so instead of talking to him about his weight, I just decided to change our lifestyle baby steps at a time.

He's lost weight because he decided he should be working out and he learned to love it, plus he took on the healthy eating like a pro. Now I am the one falling behind LOL

Autumnleaf · May 22, 2014

seeingeyes said:
First of all, if the only thing you care about is your spouse's body fat percentage, you're doing it wrong. Let's just get that out of the way.

But the other extreme, that body fat has (or should have) no effect on a marriage is also incorrect. (If my husband were 700 lbs and confined to bed, you can bet that I won't bring bringing him buckets of fried chicken every five minutes, and he sure ain't getting laid.)

There are all kinds of things in this life that can drastically and suddenly affect one's appearance: Car accidents, amputations, getting an anvil dropped on one's face. But fat is one that is actually controllable.

So what responsibility do we each have to stay (or return to) approximately the same shape that we were when our spouse was initially attracted to us?

There are many excuses for a man or woman to be fat and visually undesirable to their spouse. Its up to all of us to accept these excuses at face value and to pretend to still be sexually attracted to our spouse if they choose to take in more calories than they burn and become fat.

Inkachu · May 22, 2014

seeingeyes said:
The bold is exactly it. Changes in our body require changes in our lifestyle.

Unless a person doesn't view gaining 5 or 10 lbs over the course of 50 years a reason to go into crisis mode and freak out

seeingeyes · May 22, 2014

mkgal1 said:
Maybe I am an anamoly, then......but I doubt it. I slowed my metabolism down by poor eating habits in my 20's (not eating enough.....*always* skipping breakfast and lunch and only having a small dinner).

I've recently lost weight by regularly eating 3 meals plus two snacks each day. I don't think I've ever eaten this much in my life (nor have I ever had weight fall off like it has, either).

Most people don't have any idea how many calories they are eating and drinking. I'm not a big eater, either. When I started counting calories last year, I found that I was getting 900 a day in beverages alone. I'm a shortie, so that was around half my total "maintenance" intake. That's nuts.

So it doesn't surprise me that you lost weight when you started consciously paying attention to what you eat. "Mindless" eating is a big factor here.
You might be eating more food and drinking less calories, or just eating more often and making lower calorie choices for the food you are eating. It's kind of hard to say without a count, though. (But I'm glad that you found a system that you like!)

seeingeyes · May 22, 2014

Inkachu said:
Unless a person doesn't view gaining 5 or 10 lbs over the course of 50 years a reason to go into crisis mode and freak out

Who's in crisis mode?

seeingeyes · May 22, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
There are many excuses for a man or woman to be fat and visually undesirable to their spouse. Its up to all of us to accept these excuses at face value and to pretend to still be sexually attracted to our spouse if they choose to take in more calories than they burn and become fat.

Well, complete and mutual denial is one way to handle it.

"No, love, you're just as slim as the day I married you. Pass the fried chicken."

iluvatar5150 · May 22, 2014

mkgal1 said:
I can't copy just the relevant points for some reason......but here is a study done by Dr. Wayne Miller.... where the conclusion was that there was no relationship between energy intake and adiposity [body fat]:

http://general.utpb.edu/fac/eldridge_j/kine6362/Readings/Nut3.pdf

That study was from 23 years ago and in it, he says that skinnier people eat more carbs and obese people eat fewer.

I'd be interested to see what the subsequent literature said, because I'm pretty sure we've moved on from that way of thinking now (or are in the process of moving on).

Inkachu · May 22, 2014

Seeing, you're lumping in far too large a demographic here. It's making your "case" look hasty and not well thought out at all. If your concern is ONLY people who are "morbidly obese" then you need to clearly state that. That's not how your posts have come across. You've made it sound as though everyone should be hyper-aware of their "fat" every minute of every day of their lives, and every single pound gained should be examined and critiqued and analyzed as to WHY it exists. You're railing just as loudly against someone who gains 5 lbs as someone who gains 500 lbs.

I think you need to narrow down the point you're trying to make here.

mkgal1 · May 22, 2014

iluvatar5150 said:
That study was from 23 years ago .

I'd be interested to see what the subsequent literature said, because I'm pretty sure we've moved on from that way of thinking now (or are in the process of moving on).

My point in posting that study was to show that even though it disproved the myth of weight loss/weight gain being a simple math formula (calories in - calories burned)......we still, generally, cling to that myth.

IOW.....the belief that it's that simple has been around a lot longer than that study (and it doesn't seem to be going away---even with studies that disprove it).

Wandering Cat Lady · May 22, 2014

seeingeyes said:
Most people don't have any idea how many calories they are eating and drinking. I'm not a big eater, either. When I started counting calories last year, I found that I was getting 900 a day in beverages alone. I'm a shortie, so that was around half my total "maintenance" intake. That's nuts.

So it doesn't surprise me that you lost weight when you started consciously paying attention to what you eat. "Mindless" eating is a big factor here.
You might be eating more food and drinking less calories, or just eating more often and making lower calorie choices for the food you are eating. It's kind of hard to say without a count, though. (But I'm glad that you found a system that you like!)

That is my problem. I'm only eating around 900 calories a day...I only drink water (and not enough of it) so I know that in order to lose weight I need to mindfully eat more and drink more water...some consume too many empty calories, others, like me, don't consume enough.

akmom · May 22, 2014

The bold is exactly it. Changes in our body require changes in our lifestyle.

But I'm HUNGRYYYYYY!

akmom · May 22, 2014

Both videos speak to the idea that certain foods may increase appetite. But no one gains fat without eating more calories than their body needs. That's the bottom line.

I don't think that's actually well-supported by the latest research. Metabolism is more complex than calories in, calories out. We are actually incredibly well-designed to handle various calorie loads. Even fat storage (which we typically think of as unhealthy) has a function, and helps us to survive times of famine. The body is designed to recognize famine, slow metabolism, process calories more efficiently, and store as much as it can in the form of fat. And it actually resists tapping into those stores until it absolutely has to. The human body is designed to be "frugal" with calories. So if a person eats in "famine mode," such as skipping breakfast and lunch, and having a huge dinner (even if the total calories is less than optimal), the body is going to store fat. That is a fact that is well-supported by research.

When I lost my weight four years ago, I upped my total calories immensely. I had to force myself to eat a huge breakfast - which I did not desire at all - and continue to binge every three hours in order to signal to my body that it should not be in famine mode. I was under the direction of an experienced fitness trainer. And I lost weight. He even told us that, in a bind, it was better to eat a Snickers candy bar than skip a meal. Because it was more about the regularity of calories than the quantity. "Calories in, calories out" is an archaic form of weight loss, that requires putting the body into a state of desperation in order to convince it to draw from its famine stores. And as any frugal person would do, the body takes as little as possible at a time. That is much less efficient than convincing it that there is plenty, and it doesn't need to store fat at all.

mkgal1 · May 22, 2014

seeingeyes said:
Most people don't have any idea how many calories they are eating and drinking. I'm not a big eater, either. When I started counting calories last year, I found that I was getting 900 a day in beverages alone. I'm a shortie, so that was around half my total "maintenance" intake. That's nuts.

So it doesn't surprise me that you lost weight when you started consciously paying attention to what you eat. "Mindless" eating is a big factor here.
You might be eating more food and drinking less calories, or just eating more often and making lower calorie choices for the food you are eating. It's kind of hard to say without a count, though. (But I'm glad that you found a system that you like!)

I wasn't eating "mindlessly"......I wasn't eating ---at all---until dinner time (which was usually around 8PM.....and typically something small both in calories and amount). I was also drinking water (only)----so it wasn't that I was drinking calories. Those habits put your body into starvation mode, and when you do (finally) give it food----it stores fat (and reduces any caloric burn).

Here is a video that describes why the calorie in/calories burned myth is wrong:

Microsoft Research: The Calorie Myth & 6 Reasons Calorie Counting is Crazy with Jonathan Bailor - YouTube

Let's talk about fat.

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