Let's talk about fat.

Well, I for one am not in the slightest bit peeved that an unmarried bhsmte is participating in this discussion.

ValleyGal said:

Here's an interesting article with different videos and links. It talks about how to tactfully tell a spouse that you're concerned about their weight gain. There is also a video about a woman who weighs more than 700 lbs who is engaged to a normal-weight man half her age. No one can tell me that heavy people can't find love!!

I have not read the whole article yet, but wanted to post the link because for a while the discussion turned toward the social construction and aspect of being overweight. I do not know what it says about how to tactfully tell your spouse about their weight, but barely scanned a little and saw that you should make sure that there is actually a reason to be concerned. Someone who is 5 lbs overweight - there is no concern aside from your own vanity. And from my own perspective, sometimes there is a huge reason to be more concerned about a thin person's weight - anorexic or even "normal" weight people have died from heart attacks from being out of shape.

Back when I was so active I could eat anything and not gain, had I eaten nothing but cheeseburgers and fries, I would have still been normal weight but I would also have terribly clogged arteries and possibly even high blood pressure and other health issues. But here I am overweight and I eat very, very healthy - and I have normal blood sugars, cholesterol, blood pressure, and excellent health. So you can't judge someone's health based on their weight alone.

Anyway, here's the article:
https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/how-to-tell-a-loved-on-they-are-fat-123010410.html

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We're talking about very different things, it seems.

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in the dynamics between loving/caring couples - and that's not what my focus or interest has ever been in. My interest has always been that in the situation of the single person - because I think the dynamics there are far different.

That all being said - I'd love to see the married person who's all wrapped up in concern about a 5 lb weight gain from their partner. I've never met anyone like that. Most people I know probably wouldn't say anything until the gain started tripping the 40-50 lb mark and looked as if it was going to continue going.

How to best go about telling your spouse? I dunno. It's nothing I've ever given any thought to.

How to deal with a single person who seemingly never gets "out of the gate" - ehhh - that was always more my interest.

EZoolander said:

We're talking about very different things, it seems.

I'm not in the slightest bit interested in the dynamics between loving/caring couples - and that's not what my focus or interest has ever been in. My interest has always been that in the situation of the single person - because I think the dynamics there are far different.

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Are the dynamics really that different? It's one thing if you tell a stranger they are fat - and get away with it because you'll never see them again, although the damage to that person could be horrifying. It's another to tell someone you say you care about, like a close friend or lover, whose feelings you really need to consider when you tell them....either way, a person of conscience would still not want to hurt even a stranger, let alone their friend or lover.

EZoolander said:

That all being said - I'd love to see the married person who's all wrapped up in concern about a 5 lb weight gain from their partner. I've never met anyone like that. Most people I know probably wouldn't say anything until the gain started tripping the 40-50 lb mark and looked as if it was going to continue going.

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There was one on this forum a few days ago, and I think this thread was a spin-off from that one.

EZoolander said:

How to best go about telling your spouse? I dunno. It's nothing I've ever given any thought to.

How to deal with a single person who seemingly never gets "out of the gate" - ehhh - that was always more my interest.

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How to deal with someone who is not your spouse and who has no spouse? Show them the video of the woman in the link - she is over 700 lbs and has found a normal weight fiance who is half her age. It gives hope. But it also provides maybe a little motivation as the woman in the video wants to lose weight for her wedding.

Then there is the man who tipped the scale at more than 1,000 lbs. He also found someone and married. He was losing weight - iirc he lost around 300 lbs by the time he died recently. He had been married for 6 years by the time of his death.

So finding love happens for heavy people too. Telling a friend they won't find love till they lose weight is a lie because the truth is, you just don't know. I used to know a woman in my home town who was about 500 lbs at about 4'10", and she, too, found love. The last time I went for a visit, she was in the process of losing weight and a mutual friend said they were considering marriage.

Imo, no one needs to express "you're fat, lose some weight and then you'll get what you want in life." There is a tactful way to go about helping someone who is overweight, and that's not it. One tactful thing to do is to just not talk about it unless they bring up the subject. If they bring it up, think about your response so you don't offend them, but you can still be honest. Don't offer opinions....offer hope. Ask them questions about their perception rather than telling them anything. And if they express a commitment to losing weight of their own accord, ask them how you can support them in it - then be prepared to commit to whatever you agree on.

EZoolander said:

Well, I for one am not in the slightest bit peeved that an unmarried bhsmte is participating in this discussion.

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I agree. I'd be peeved if he needed to leave

ValleyGal said:

Are the dynamics really that different? It's one thing if you tell a stranger they are fat - and get away with it because you'll never see them again, although the damage to that person could be horrifying. It's another to tell someone you say you care about, like a close friend or lover, whose feelings you really need to consider when you tell them....either way, a person of conscience would still not want to hurt even a stranger, let alone their friend or lover.



There was one on this forum a few days ago, and I think this thread was a spin-off from that one.



How to deal with someone who is not your spouse and who has no spouse? Show them the video of the woman in the link - she is over 700 lbs and has found a normal weight fiance who is half her age. It gives hope. But it also provides maybe a little motivation as the woman in the video wants to lose weight for her wedding.

Then there is the man who tipped the scale at more than 1,000 lbs. He also found someone and married. He was losing weight - iirc he lost around 300 lbs by the time he died recently. He had been married for 6 years by the time of his death.

So finding love happens for heavy people too. Telling a friend they won't find love till they lose weight is a lie because the truth is, you just don't know. I used to know a woman in my home town who was about 500 lbs at about 4'10", and she, too, found love. The last time I went for a visit, she was in the process of losing weight and a mutual friend said they were considering marriage.

Imo, no one needs to express "you're fat, lose some weight and then you'll get what you want in life." There is a tactful way to go about helping someone who is overweight, and that's not it. One tactful thing to do is to just not talk about it unless they bring up the subject. If they bring it up, think about your response so you don't offend them, but you can still be honest. Don't offer opinions....offer hope. Ask them questions about their perception rather than telling them anything. And if they express a commitment to losing weight of their own accord, ask them how you can support them in it - then be prepared to commit to whatever you agree on.

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To be honest - I don't buy that what those people in the video have is true love. While I'll give the caveat that perhaps I'm wrong, I've always believed that all else being equal, it's best to believe the simplest explanation to be the truth.

As much as people like to believe they're unique, that situations are different, that they're special snowflakes in the wind, whatever...I believe that there's a simple human condition that everyone partakes in. There are occasional exceptions to every rule of course, but to go around living your life in the anticipation of finding an exception is just foolish.

Rather - everyone is pretty much the same. Want to know what's going to happen to you? Look around at other people that were in similar situations and what happened to them. That's what's going to happen to you. More often than naught - that's simply the truth of the matter.

Looking at that lady, I simply cannot believe that her guy is running home every night eagerly awaiting to have sex with her, to enjoy her body, etc... I don't believe that's a factor in their relationship...and the reality is...everyone (unless they're some bizarro asexual or closeted individual who's not interested in sex for various other reasons) wants that. If it ain't a part of the equation - it's not "love". It may be a good friendship, it may be him looking for a reality show gig, who knows. But - at least the way most people think about "love" - that most likely ain't it.

...or at least I wouldn't take it to Vegas and bet the house on it.

If I *HAD* to place a bet - however - I would bet that 10 years from now (if she's still alive) they won't be married any more...or they won't have gotten married together at all.

Whatever that dude's deal is - and let's hope it actually is love - I certainly wouldn't use it as some sort of proof to give hope to others. Best case scenario - he truly is something exceptional - and the fat person will end up enduring a lifetime of humiliation while hoping that they find that rare individual. Worst case scenario and the guy is somehow looking to parlay this into an opportunity of some kind - she's simply had her misfortune exploited by someone else.

Either way - not exactly a rosy outlook for anyone watching them and hoping to use it as a source of inspiration in their own lives. Rather - you'd be far better off just removing that thing (obesity) from the equation altogether and finding a relationship free of that nonsense.

and yes - the situation facing a single person is far different than the situation facing a married person.

When you're single - like I said - you are simply a random face in the crowd. When someone approaches you - they decide within the first 10-15 seconds whether or not you're a worthwhile candidate for being a mate. That means - if you're definitely a "no" - they know it right away.

Obese people don't get out of the gate because the initial reaction is "no". They may be good friends, but nothing more. They're the person that gets dropped off at the end of the night with a hug - and it never proceeds further than that.

That's the dynamic that interests me in these discussions, and the arena where I try to keep my comments confined.

As for when you're married - it's far different. I have a commitment to my wife. You have a commitment to your husband. You know him. I know her. They're not some random face in a crowd that can instantly be glossed over with a gut "no" reaction - to then move on to someone more appealing. You have no loyalty to some random stranger that you've never met...and you instantly forget about them. A spouse is far different. Someone you already know/love is far different.

Everything is linear. The loyalty you have, and the consideration you give, to someone at point A is less than the person at point B. The person at point B is less than the person at point C.

I'm talking about the people at point A - and addressing why they seemingly never get to point B, C, D, E, F, G, etc. You're talking about people already at point Y.

I believe in people. I believe in love. I believe in variety. I believe that people are attracted to different things. Your value is obviously thin rather than overweight. There are others who value their friendship enough to allow love to blossom in spite of obesity, and I believe in that. I believe people who claim to love someone who is obese and commit to marrying them in spite of the weight because I give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves otherwise. You have different values, but that does not mean others' values are abnormal or inconceivable. Live and let live.

Absolutely.

I do take issue with the statement though "Your value is obviously thin rather than overweight."

That's actually not where I'm coming from in this discussion. I'm simply stating what I believe to be the realities of what people face in life in the effort to give the best advice possible.

Believe me, I understand the desire to try and make weight about something more than what it is. People like to believe they undergo stuff for a reason...or at the very least that they gleam something worthwhile out of their misfortune.

With obesity - those beliefs take the form of things like "somehow our love is deeper - because it's beyond the superficiality that other people base their relationships upon" - or "I know my husband/wife truly loves me - because they accept this or that". Heck - I used to make the same kinds of arguments, and I remember the reasons why.

But - the truth is - that's a bunch of nonsense. People that prefer physically fit people aren't hung up on superficiality and don't have more "shallow" relationships. People that refuse to date the obese aren't superficial. The relationships that the obese may begin to cultivate aren't somehow deeper or more special. There isn't some elusive connection that they've got that others are missing.

It's all the same. The only difference is the amount of garbage you deal with in the meantime and to get to that point.

The most liberating moment for me was when I realized that. Despite all of the effusive flowery (and self serving) nonsense I used to spew about acceptance, true love, this, that...etc... there was a moment where I sat back and asked myself "do I even offer that which I purport to value?"

...and the answer was a resounding "no."

Even at my heaviest, at 350 lbs, if a 600 lb woman had approached me and said "but I love you" - I'd have given her the friend speech. The truth is - I was just as bigoted against people significantly heavier than me as those were that had rejected me. The only difference was our starting point.

If I was just as "guilty" of those feelings as those that I lamented about - what did that really say?

I certainly wasn't going to try and shift my point of view to somehow take the stand that I was going to start looking at 600 lb women as potential mates, because I'm honest enough with myself to know that wouldn't last. I simply didn't want that - just as other women didn't want a 350 lb guy. If I would grant myself that liberty and feel good about it - weren't they just as entitled?

So the only real solution was to get rid of the problem in and of itself. Respect other people enough to grant them what they want - because inherently you want it too. Anything else would be hypocritical. Realizing that simple fact took away all feelings of conflict or feeling "at odds" with "society" - and actually made the process feel good.

Fat people feel far too at odds with society - and I believe it's that sort of thing that causes it. They think they're undergoing something - and they try to give it meaning in the process. In that quest for meaning - they give it value - and it's the assigning of value (and often a moral sentiment) to it that makes many of these things difficult.

It's the assigning of meaning - and other people - that I firmly believe are the biggest impediments people have. People aren't consistent - they don't really TRULY try (in the grand scheme of things) - because they don't value the fact that they OUGHT to do it. You can't succeed at something that you feel you OUGHT NOT HAVE TO DO. Ya know? And that really is the whole push of this thing.

EZoolander said:

That all being said - I'd love to see the married person who's all wrapped up in concern about a 5 lb weight gain from their partner. I've never met anyone like that. Most people I know probably wouldn't say anything until the gain started tripping the 40-50 lb mark and looked as if it was going to continue going.

How to best go about telling your spouse? I dunno. It's nothing I've ever given any thought to.

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This thread was actually inspired by another thread that was about an unreasonable response to weight gain (his wife began as a size 0/95 pounds, when she was younger than 25, and had gone all the way up to [sarcasm] a size 4/120 pounds, two children later. So....it *was* more than 5 pounds......but it was still an unreasonable response.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7823165/

I saw that thread - to be honest I thought it was trolling. lol

EZoolander said:

I saw that thread - to be honest I thought it was trolling. lol

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I hope so. If it was, he "caught" a lot in the trolling mission

Nothing gets 'em going like discussions about weight. lol

Inkachu said:

It's fascinating that you mention this, because I literally just a few days ago, watched a documentary about this. And YES, China has recently (within the last 25 years) allowed fast food franchises to open up. And the numbers of obese people are rapidly growing as a result.

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ValleyGal said:

I saw this too. They also said being heavy is a sign of middle class there, while here it is more a sign of lower-income - after all, when my son was young, it was far cheaper for me to take him to McDonalds to eat than it was to make a nutritious meal at home for him.

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I know I'm late to the party, but I just read this thread and had to respond, especially to the China post. Obviously having Chinese family and being to China twice does not make me an expert. However, I don't think fast food is the issue. The portions are a lot smaller at fast food there and they aren't that popular. The packed places are still the traditional Chinese restaurants. Food is very different now than it was decades ago. People starving to death is much more rare than it used to be. People can afford to buy more food and love to eat. Most people can probably afford all the rice they want and in addition have money for meat. Pork is a huge favorite. Though they also eat plenty of veggies.

One thing that I think is making a big difference is cars and motor-bikes. People used to walk or bike everywhere and that's not necessarily the case anymore. (Though traffic is a nightmare and walking is still big.) Plus, high level apartments are very common because of the population size. And many of those buildings don't have elevators. My SIL has a 7 floor walkup and walks up and down it multiple times a day. (Man is that rough on weak Americans ) Though more newer buildings are being built all of the time, with elevators.

Double posting for readability.

As far as the original topic, I've gained weight because of getting pregnant, but he's about 18 months old and I still have half the weight I gained....and I gained too much weight. My husband still thinks I'm sexy. He's gained happy marriage weight and I still find him sexy. Frankly, I think it's sad when couples fight about weight gain. Though I am more understanding when the topic is approached with love and involves health concerns.

Now to the topic that has evolved in the thread. I used to be a big "it's all about the calories" person. Calorie restriction is how I lost about 100 lbs and kept it off until I got pregnant. To be honest, I didn't always necessarily eat healthy. It really was all about the calories to me. After having my son, I found losing weight became more complicated. I now strongly believe physical fitness is also important and that variety is important. Basically I agree with the single guy who unfortunately can't post here anymore. I only started seeing some weight loss (25 lbs so far) after walking and adding in strength training. It's probably post-pregnancy and birth hormones and aging, but it's definitely more complicated to lose weight than just restricting calories.

And I agree with akmom that priorities matter. Do I want to be able to fit into my pre-baby clothes and not feel like I'm dying when it's warm out? Yes, but child care and other issues that come with having a little one makes losing weight a little more challenging. Thankfully I have a husband who doesn't really care if I lose the baby weight, as long as I try to be healthy.

Well, I for one am not in the slightest bit peeved that an unmarried bhsmte is participating in this discussion.

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Me either. I think it was kind of rude for a mod to pop in and expel someone from a thread who was non-controversial, very knowledgeable, and added a lot to the discussion.

I have requested (a few times) that the thread be moved to the Lifestages Hangout so that won't be an issue.

nm

bhsmte said:

I apologize.

These types of topics are very interesting to me and I couldn't help myself.

This will be my last post in this thread.

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MKGal is right - the thread should be moved so that you continue. You do give very good advice.

Since this thread isn't being moved, I'm going to just go ahead and start a new one where there are no restrictions as to whom can be involved.

Here is the link:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7825379/#post65723857

Heinzzz said:

Um...with regards to those Doritos, doesn't it sort of depend on the size of the bag?

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Well, of course, I'm talking about the typical $1 bag

Not sure how much saturated fat those bananas contain either, unlike deep fried snacks like fried corn chips...because I think bananas contain very little, from memory, lol.

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Since the post I was responding to was specifically about calories, that's why my response focused on calories, not saturated fat.