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Reformationist

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Let me reiterate once again that this type of devotional practice, if done in an effort to get closer to God, sounds wonderful. However, hearing Oblio's "When, not if" makes me think that this, too, has been elevated to a point of "have to do" rather than "beneficial to do." Did I misinterpret what you were saying Oblio?

Thanks,
God bless
 
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JVAC

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Lotar said:
So, what are you planning on giving up?
Funny how one little question can get people all riled up. I like the Church Calendar, it takes us through every aspect of the Faith, it takes three Gregorian years to get through all three variants but it is most meaningful.

Quite interesting that just because it isn't "in the Bible" that some people think it to be bad.

Maybe if some people thought of the Church Calendar as a bible study rather than an action they would have less problems with it?

-James
 
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Reformationist

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Who's "riled up" and who "thinks it to be bad?"
 
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ByzantineDixie

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JVAC said:
Funny how one little question can get people all riled up. I like the Church Calendar, it takes us through every aspect of the Faith, it takes three Gregorian years to get through all three variants but it is most meaningful.

I have never been one to embrace tradition for the sake of tradition...I generally like new, different and fresh. Nonetheless, I can't imagine worshipping outside of the liturgical calendar. In part, I guess it is fresh because the face of worship changes as the year progresses but the best component is that it doesn't let us lose sight of the important things. It gives us opportunities for penitential reflection and opportunities for ulitmate rejoicing.

Now, if I only could feel the same way about the weekly liturgy, oldie moldie hymns and the organ! Hey, with God all things are possible!

Peace

Rose
 
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Oblio

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It was our Lord that said when you fast.

But if you interpret it as meaning that we fast to earn salvation, then yes you misinterpreted it, for salvation is only by the Grace and Mercy of God. We do it because, our Lord commanded us to do it, just as he commands us to pray, to give alms, to forgive, and to love. If we do not do these things, then we do not have the faith that saves.
 
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Reformationist

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Oblio said:
It was our Lord that said when you fast.

Okay, so He said, "When you fast..." That doesn't mean you have to fast. Look, "Oblio, when you post, do so in a godly manner." I have not said, "Oblio, you must post." Now, of course, I'm not Christ, but what He said was, "Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance." He didn't say, "Moreover, make sure you fast and when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance." You seem to be implying that because God gave instruction on the proper attitude when fasting that that means that fasting is commanded.

But if you interpret it as meaning that we fast to earn salvation, then yes you misinterpreted it, for salvation is only by the Grace and Mercy of God.

Huh? I was not aware that this had anything at all to do with our salvation. Why would you think I meant it that way?

We do it because, our Lord commanded us to do it, just as he commands us to pray, to give alms, to forgive, and to love.

Okay. Where does He command us to fast?

If we do not do these things, then we do not have the faith that saves.

Um...I've never fasted, at least not willingly. Does that mean my faith is suspect? Here you make it clear that you judge the validity of someone's faith based on the works you acknowledge. I understand that forgiving others and loving others is indicative of one who has been forgiven so much and loved with the love of God but it seems as if you feel you are equipped to presume that a person's faith is not genuine because they may not seem forgiving in your eyes. Are you saying that if you knew that someone had never fasted, as is the case with me, you suspect their faith as being false?
 
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Photini

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Reformationist said:
Not that I don't admire your zeal, I certainly do, but I'm curious why you do this. What is your motivation? Do you believe that by practicing denying your flesh that you'll be better equipped to be holy?

Thanks,
God bless
Exerpt from: www.monachos.net/monasticism/ascetic.shtml

This is one of my favorite reflections!!!

 
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Terri

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dsdumpling said:
For the most part, I'm giving up television.

Crazy Liz, I've never heard that before that Protestants don't observe Lent. We have a Shrove Tuesday pancake dinner and a Ash Wednesday service.
Well, I guess it had to eventually happen Dawn!! We do differ! I don't celebrate Lent and have never celebrated Lent nor have I ever given anything up for it. Unless of course you considers going to Mardi Gras in New Orleans as celebrating Lent. I never knew there were protestants that celebrated Lent until I came to this forum.

But, in your honor Dawn I will be giving up Sea Kelp this Lent. Since I have never had any, I'm not anticipating any problem with giving it up!

I have no problem with Christians doing what they feel led to do in this matter. The only danger I see is the danger of feeling superior and self-righteous and somehow more spiritual and closer to God for doing it. I do not believe that doing any of it brings anyone closer to God than not doing it brings me.

 
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dsdumpling

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Oh no, where did we go wrong. We've only started celebrating Lent within the last 5 years or so at my church. We are instructed by Jesus when we fast to clean yourself up and look good. We shouldn't be walking around and say "I'm fasting". It's between us and our Heavenly Father.

Well, since you're giving up Sea Kelp I better take an extra one a day for you.
 
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wvmtnkid

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I am a United Methodist and we celebrate Lent. It isn't a "have to" thing, but it is something that we are encouraged to do. And we don't always give something up. Last year we started a new tradition. We had our first Ash Wednesday service, where we had ashes placed on our foreheads. And instead of giving up, we did something else. During the weeks of Lent we had a different task. One week were to write letters. We chose 3 people in our lives to write letters to. They could be someone we admired, someone we hadn't talked with in a while, someone we needed to share the Gospel with. It was left up to us who to write to and what to write, only that we were to do it prayerfully and listen to the urging of the Holy Spirit. One week was the week of visits. We were to visit 3 people, maybe shuts ins, take dinner to someone who was sick. Again it was left up to us. One week we were to do acts of love for 3 people. One week was the week of gifts. One week was phone calls to 3 people. There was one more, but it escapes me right now.

As for the reason of observing Lent, we use it as a way to prepare ourselves for Easter, much like Advent is the season that we prepare ourselves for Christmas in the Church. It is a way to draw ourselves closer to God. We usually have Lenten devotions and scripture readings. We have a Foot washing and Nail Driving service on Maundy Thursday and Tenebre/Communion Service on Friday. Then we have a celebration of Resurrection on Sunday. It is just a meaningful time of reflection for me during this period. I do usually try to give up something, usually for the discipline. I feel if Jesus Christ gave his life for me, I can give something back to him that I cherish for 40 days.

Edit: I wanted to add-one year my church did their own Lenten devotional book. During the fall, we could sign up to take one day during lent for the coming year and do a devotion. We were given a scripture for that day and the rest was up to us. I still have that Lenten devotional book, it means so much to me to have the thoughts and life experiences of people in my church written down to inspire me. Some have passed away since they wrote their devotion. It is nice to have this memory of them.
 
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pmarquette

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Crazy Liz said:
Lots of protestants don't even observe Lent. I wonder how many do?
essentially give up some thing , take the price of the thing and put it in the plate [ almsgiving , prayer ] ; this comes out only with fasting and prayer .... as with the rice bowl with catholic brethren

Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, [say they], and thou seest not? [wherefore] have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.

Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as [ye do this] day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? [is it] to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes [under him]? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

Isa 58:6 [Is] not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
 
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Momzilla

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wvmtnkid,
Your United Methodist church is a lot different than mine! The only change I see during lent is that the sermons concern repentance; there is no other change in practice, and the "observance" of Lent is really not discussed.

Last year when I called to make arrangements to have my younger son baptized, I made some comment to the effect of, "Of course it can't be done during Lent." To this, the immediate response was, "why not?" The scheduler was truly mystified.

However, I know that some individual members of my church adopt a lenten fasting discipline. I'm one of them, but I haven't quite decided the parameters of my fast. It will probably (hopefully) resemble Orthodox practice, which should make for some interesting questions at the women's retreat!
 
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wvmtnkid

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Momzilla-

Our observance has certainly changed over the years. When I first started attending this church, we didn't anything at Lent. Our pastor that served close to 20 years ago started incorporating more and more into Lent. We had some resistance at first but I think most of the congregation came around! Our current pastor really encourages us to use the season of Lent to reflect on our own spiritual state and use it as a time to reach out to others.

We have discussed in the past incorporating a Passover/Seder meal (I think I spelled that correctly) into some of our activities. I think that would be interesting.
 
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good4u

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I myself do not observe Lent. Tho' for those who are so led by God to do so, especially our Catholic or Orthodox friends, more power to them.

It is admirable of them, but Christ gave the most supreme sacrifice, so I don't see how an observance could top that, but to each their own. *shrugs*
 
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Oblio

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It is admirable of them, but Christ gave the most supreme sacrifice, so I don't see how an observance could top that, but to each their own. *shrugs*

Agreed.
No one would dare try to top Christ and His death and Ressurection.
Lent prepares us for the Feast of Feasts; through increased prayer, almsgiving, and fasting we aim to bring to ourselves a decrease in self, so that He may increase.
 
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jenptcfan

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I come from a Baptist background and have never been involved with a church that celebrates lent. I have, however, been involved with churches which encourage fasts from time to time though. I think that fasting can be a really powerful spiritual tool, it's biblical, and can really help one to focus on God intently for a period of time.

For those of you who celebrate lent, more power to ya!
 
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wvmtnkid

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Agreeing with Oblio, that nothing we do can ever come close to Christ's sacrifice for us. And I don't believe the observance of Lent is meant to do that. It is a way of preparation of our hearts with the intention of bringing us closer to God, in however we chose to observe it, by fasting, prayer, devotions and scripture meditations, or almsgiving. It is a time to look within ourselves and a time to reflect on the sacrifice given for us. It ends in a joyful celebration of the Resurrection of the One who died for us! Of the Christian calendar, I think the season of Lent and the celebration of Easter are the most meaningful to me.
 
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BAChristian

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I can definitely relate to some of the Protestants here. Growing up as a Nazarene, I had never heard of Lent, or Creeds, or Advent, or anything like that.

With that said, I'm so happy to be Catholic and enjoying all of these seasons, and the special times of the year (not that every day isn't special, but the seasons add a little hmph to my spiritual life) where I am called to reflect upon Christ's love in my life and to be able to give something to Him -- to show Him how much I appreciate what he's done for me...

...and it's nice to be able to celebrate with my Protestant brothers and sisters during this time of year as well.
 
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