Lead me on ...

Princess Pea · Oct 8, 2006

Read this article ...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/singles/newsletter/mind61004.html

Thoughts?

Personally, my heart went out to the author. Her frustration, disappointment, and embarassment really resonated with me, although I don't think I've ever been led on in quite the same way. "I don't think any woman in America would have interpreted his actions any differently that I had" - well, I'm definitely one of those women.

I know there are two sides to every story, and the guy in question certainly seemed to believe he was guiltless. Still, if the writer has told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, I cannot come up with any explanation of what "Stan" was thinking. Maybe someone out there will see things his way and explain his logic to me? I'm not looking to argue, just to understand ...

JPPT1974 · Oct 8, 2006

Hey I am like that writer
Being a woman, I guess I know
Where that writer is coming from
Believe me, I think that she is telling the truth.

mina · Oct 8, 2006

hmmm, I don't know what he was thinking. I was confused by his words and actions and i'm just reading them 2nd hand! I mean he seemed to tell her things that was kind of more special than just friends. And then just going to see her on a special trip??? If he had wanted to be just friends, he should have told her that to begin with. I mean, don't ask out girls to do things exclusively with you if you haven't made it clear that you are just friends. Don't drive 2 days to see someone of the opposite sex in another state if you just want to be pals. don't talk about taking the member of the opposite sex dancing and dressing up if it's not special to you. If you are going to go the distance for someone, make sure it's a special someone or else things can get confusing. If they are just a friend, especially a friend you don't know well yet, don't go out of the way and do special little confusing things. Probably stan was confused himself; maybe he didn't make a decsion until after he decided it was a really long way to drive. But yeah, I don't think that girl deserved that.

Periann · Oct 8, 2006

Maybe Stan is just as enthusiastic with all of his girl friends, which I find a little hard to believe. But what kind of confused me was why would he say over the phone in response to her email that he was interested in her and that she was the highlight of the conference-if he wasn't leaning towards romance? And paying for dinner and things like that? Hello? That's definitely romantic. He is the one who needed to get the clue not her. I think a possibility is that he was thinking of her romantically, but then when he went on his trip to visit her he knew it wouldn't work for whatever reason, instead of telling her that he tried to spare her feelings by saying he wasn't interested in a romantic relationship all along. Which compounds his mistakes and he should have just stuck to saying the truth in a gentle way-it would have made him look like less of a jerk in the end.

Highland Watchman · Oct 8, 2006

I agree - it does seem from her standpoint that there was something more there. I don't know - somethings, sure... they might be taken either way... but other things are just plain bone headed...

Of course, there are times when that same "game" is played in the other direction as well, and it is not only the guys who play it.

Beauty4Ashes · Oct 9, 2006

LOL

I guess I shouldn't be laughing but crying, heh. But yep, been there. Recently in fact, except it went on for 7 months. lol. And on top of that, he did clearly admit liking me at the beginning. Clueless and confused I suppose.

Maybe these guys were brothers?

Irascible · Oct 9, 2006

Ever hear stories about people who get married a few months after meeting only for it to end badly? What's your reaction? You might feel some compassion for their pain. However, if you’re normal then your primary reaction is to think about the foolishness of getting married so quickly.

If Stan had lived nearby, our dear author had about as much interaction with him as one might get in a few weeks. Would you invest your emotions in a person you've known for a few weeks? She didn't exactly say she committed her heart, but why else would she feel so much anger and pain? She pinned romantic hope on a guy she had known for the equivalent of a few weeks. Foolish.

I feel some compassion for her pain. I feel some disdain for Stan’s actions. However, I mostly marvel at how quickly she invested herself in someone she hardly knew.

Beautiful Fireball · Oct 9, 2006

Described me perfectly, except like B4A, mine also went on for about 7 or 8 months, he clearly admitted that he liked me at one point and saw a future with me, we saw each other often, and when I asked for more he said he saw me only as a friend.

Oh well, you live and learn

bithiah2 · Oct 9, 2006

Princess Pea said:
Read this article ...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/singles/newsletter/mind61004.html

it sounds like this guy may have liked her at first, but then lost interest because he just liked the "excitement of the chase", which is what a lot of men do after they get what they want, which may be just the woman's interest...it's an ego thing. she did the right thing by asking him his intentions, and he could say "well, i meant what i said at the time i said it" (i heard that one before). in the book i keep suggesting (What Smart Women Know) it talks about men who do whirwind courtships, and how they can just lose interest as quickly as they start up. in fact, when they start out with too much too soon, it is a sign to back off. this man probably has a pattern of doing this to different women, because he is afraid of committment and is very immature. i don't know. i'm not a psychologist, just somebody who has lived awhile and had some very interesting experiences.
i suppose the best thing to do is to ask questions and even more important, get wisdom from God. He knows everything about everybody, and knows what they will or will not do.
blessings
bithiah2

Anduron · Oct 9, 2006

Unfortunetly she had not made mention of a few INCREDIBLY important actions that she should have done beforehand. Although she either thought of them as unimportant to write down or did not bother to think of such an action.

One possibility of "Stan's" actions in the second meeting could be that a gentle whisper had told him to back off. And perhaps he knew not how to handle it.

Princess Pea · Oct 9, 2006

Anduron said:
Unfortunetly she had not made mention of a few INCREDIBLY important actions that she should have done beforehand.

Such as?

Tuffguy · Oct 9, 2006

Stuff like this happens one both sides with men and women. Women play this game up way more then men, from what I have seen.
My gf (before she was my gf) and i where friends for 7 months before we started dating. I clearly wanted to date her, but she clearly wasn't 'getting' it. It took a while for some other things in her life to clear up, and then she was smitten! And its been that way ever since. It was pretty much one day when the veil lifted from her eyes.
Life is about risk management. Wether you like it or not we all take risks with our personal lives. We risk being hurt. This story is the same as all others with relationships. When they don't work, someone is hurt. They're all the same!

I would ask the girl in the story this questions. Why did you think it would work out well? Why was she so disappointed if this was just a 'trial', just like she says? She got her hopes up, well ahead of the facts and information presented.

fieldmouse3 · Oct 9, 2006

I don't know that a guy paying for tickets and dinners and stuff would be enough to get me thinking he really liked me as more than a friend, but driving several hours to see me for a weekend would. Plus, "Stan" used the word "date" when he said he didn't know how to date someone long distance. That gave the author every right to think that's what he wanted. If he did feel that way and changed his mind, he should have told her.

Katnansis · Oct 9, 2006

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this website, but I am familiar with the article, becaue I am also subscribed to their newsletter.

I have already sent a response to Camerin/Chrisitan Singles Today, so I'm going to say basically the same thing I did in my response:

It was both Camerin's and Stan's fault.
Camerin let Stan know her feelings about him too soon, I think. She should have kept that to herself and let Stan be the one to ask about the 'direction' of their friendship. Yes, she did build up her hopes in someone she didn't know too well. Yes, even though Stan mentioned interstate dating, he never said he wanted to interstate-date Camerin. If the guy doesn't say something along the line of "I want to date you/have a relationshipe with you" all other actions and words are merely assumptions. She should have declared to herself that he is only a friend, regardless of his romantic actions. And speaking of such this is where Stan is at fault. I t looks like he was interested in Camerin, but he seemed a little hesitant about starting a dating relationship with her (maybe he's hurt from past relationships..?) So he did everything he thought would keep her interested in him (driving long distance, exciting weekend, etc.) until he made up his mind about dating her. He was wrong to play with her feelings like that, knowing she was without a doubt very interested in him as a boyfriend.

That's my take on it.

SelfProtect · Oct 9, 2006

This is frustrating and why I think allowing the guy to do the intiating is legalistic. I held back and was a guy's best friend for 2 years. After one and 1/2 year I asked if he thought we would ever be more than friends and he said he didn't think so. He continued to call me 1 - 3 TIMES A DAY EVERY DAY (this went on for over a year). It wasn't unusual for us to talk for an hour each time he called. Then one day he abruptly stopped and went to once a week and now less than that. It was hard for me to accept he wasn't interested because he acted like he was. We are still friends. I really don't know how I would do things differently. The christian community says its his job to do the initiating. It is difficult to set boundaries with your emotions and conversations when you are interested in someone. Besides how else are you going to get to know someone? Its a risk to put yourself out there. I wish I didn't care so much. Sometimes I want to end the friendship but he really hasn't done anything wrong. It would sound stupid to say I don't want to be your friend anymore because you are not interested in me. This is a tough one.

joyouspirit · Oct 9, 2006

I agree with Fieldmouse, driving several hours to see me, is something. And one thing, the girl asked his intentions of coming, that was pretty clear to me, that he was interested.
I don't know what happened there. For me, I would do the same thing, ask him why he was coming and whatever his answer would be, having read this article, I would still say to myself it might still end up just friends just to keep safe and away from being hurt. Been hurt so many times, sometimes i would just wish I'd go numb.

God bless!!!

OhhJim · Oct 9, 2006

One possibility is that Stan actually WAS interested to some degree, but at some point, in Chicago, he realized it could never work out. What does he say? Where, in the playbook of romance, is the chapter and verse that tells a man (or a woman, I suppose) what to say when he realizes she's not that smart, or she reminds him too much of Aunt Betsy, or she's a cat person and he's allergic, or any one of a hundred other seemingly insignificant reasons he can't stand to spend the rest of his life with her?

So, he falls back on the, "It was never that big a deal" story. It works much better than, "I have discovered something about you that is horrid, and disgusts me", doesn't it? How many of you women would enjoy hearing how disgusting you are?

I've found that women do something similiar, except it runs along the lines of, "You are attractive, intelligent, interesting, funny, honest, sensitive, kind, employed, God-fearing, have many of my interests, and adore me. In short, you are everything I've ever wanted in a man. I just don't feel the spark, the chemistry, the zing. Goodbye."

It happens, you deal with it, you move on.

Llauralin · Oct 9, 2006

OhhJim said:
One possibility is that Stan actually WAS interested to some degree, but at some point, in Chicago, he realized it could never work out. What does he say? Where, in the playbook of romance, is the chapter and verse that tells a man (or a woman, I suppose) what to say when he realizes she's not that smart, or she reminds him too much of Aunt Betsy, or she's a cat person and he's allergic, or any one of a hundred other seemingly insignificant reasons he can't stand to spend the rest of his life with her?

So, he falls back on the, "It was never that big a deal" story. It works much better than, "I have discovered something about you that is horrid, and disgusts me", doesn't it? How many of you women would enjoy hearing how disgusting you are?

I've found that women do something similiar, except it runs along the lines of, "You are attractive, intelligent, interesting, funny, honest, sensitive, kind, employed, God-fearing, have many of my interests, and adore me. In short, you are everything I've ever wanted in a man. I just don't feel the spark, the chemistry, the zing. Goodbye."

It happens, you deal with it, you move on.

But it wasn't a question of saying that "you disgust me," but rather simply that he had considered dating her, but then realized that it wouldn't work out. Considering they live quite a long way from each other, there are plenty of excuses he could have come up with that would have been less confusing than what he did, and less heartless than "I realized that I hate X about you."

Would it still have hurt? Sure. But that kind of hurt it sounds like she had already considered as a possibility, and was in a way prepared for, while the other she was not. How exactly she expected Stan to know that, I'm not sure though.

Llauralin · Oct 9, 2006

One thing that I disagree with is that paying for dinner/tickets/whatever does not necessarily imply romantic intentions. I was having a bit of a chat with some guy friends about what their rules were for doign things with girls, and they agreed that along with opening doors and offering their coat if she's cold, is paying (or at least offering to pay) for meals. One of them said he feels pretty awkward if the girl pays -- like she's not letting him be a gentelman. Judging by observation, I don't think he just meant dates either.

mina · Oct 9, 2006

Llauralin said:
But it wasn't a question of saying that "you disgust me," but rather simply that he had considered dating her, but then realized that it wouldn't work out. Considering they live quite a long way from each other, there are plenty of excuses he could have come up with that would have been less confusing than what he did, and less heartless than "I realized that I hate X about you."

Would it still have hurt? Sure. But that kind of hurt it sounds like she had already considered as a possibility, and was in a way prepared for, while the other she was not. How exactly she expected Stan to know that, I'm not sure though.

I agree, I don't understand why he still came to visit her if he wasn't interested. I don't nessacerially think he was a jerk; I think he was probably confused about his feelings toward her. But he was asked outright about his intentions. I dated a guy for nearly 2 years, and he told me almost everyday he liked me, wanted to be with me, we made plans for the future together. when I first met him I didn't even give him the time of day and he flatout pursured a friendship with me and then made it extremely clear he was pursuing a romantic relationship with me. I gave in and dated him for a year and a half and in the end he told me he didn't have feelings for me. I mean at what point was I supposed to read his mind, b/c his actions and words told me another story. I think it's more than the girl is just stupid and discusting. Maybe no one needs to halfway pursue someone unless they are sure that they really like the person.

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