Knowledge of Jesus Christ

CHALLENGE

"But all those things that I might count as profit I now reckon as loss for Christ's sake. Not only those things; I reckon everything as complete loss for the sake of what is so much more valuable, the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have thrown everything away; I consider it all as mere refuse, so that I may gain Christ and be completely united with him. I no longer have a righteousness of my own, the kind that is gained by obeying the Law. I now have the righteousness that is given through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is based on faith. All I want is to know Christ and to experience the power of his resurrection, to share in his sufferings and become like him in his death, in the hope that I myself will be raised from death to life." (PAUL, Phil. 3: 7-11)

Has any investigative study been conducted to date on Biblical means of firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ as proposed by St. Paul?

I believe that Dr. Gary Habermas has. Here's his website: Dr. Gary R. Habermas - Online Resource for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

texastig said:

I believe that Dr. Gary Habermas has. Here's his website: Dr. Gary R. Habermas - Online Resource for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

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Thank you so much.

Having read only "The Truth and the Comfort of the Resurrection", I am inclined to reject Gary R. Habermas' defence (Decision, vol. 41, no. 4, April 2000) on grounds of incompatibility with two key Biblical arguments, viz.:

1) The exercise, in practice, of Jesus' divine rights of giving up his life and taking it back again (John 10: 17-18; 19: 30-37); or alternatively

2) The historical antecedents in the books of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the Psalms referred to by Jesus himself to rehabilitate his disciples (Luke 24: 25-49).

Thank you for your reply.

Maybe you can help me. What does "Jesus' divine rights of giving up his life and taking it back again" and "The historical antecedents in the books of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the Psalms referred to by Jesus himself to rehabilitate his disciples" have to do with, "any investigative study conducted to date on Biblical means of firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ as proposed by St. Paul"?

Woldeyesus said:

CHALLENGE

Has any investigative study been conducted to date on Biblical means of firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ as proposed by St. Paul?

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Not sure what kind of investigation you are looking for. Jesus appeared personally to Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9). From that point on Paul enjoyed a relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit and even visited heave (2 Cor 12). So I'm not sure what you are asking...

Woldeyesus said:

Has any investigative study been conducted to date on Biblical means of firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ as proposed by St. Paul?

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Here's the only "investigative study" on the topic that means anything at all, IMHO:

Psalm 27:8 [When thou saidst], Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek."

Goes hand in hand with:

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste."

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded."

Isaiah 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isaiah 50:7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed."

And then there's this:

razeontherock said:

Here's the only "investigative study" on the topic that means anything at all, IMHO:

Psalm 27:8 [When thou saidst], Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek."

Goes hand in hand with:

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste."

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded."

Isaiah 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isaiah 50:7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed."

And then there's this:

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Thank you very much!

Subject to more comments, your admission (if valid, reliable and subject to more comments), confirms my worst fears which should not at all if we obeyed like the Psalmist (27:8) and Abraham who actually outshine us in spite of our far greater prospects in the gospel! The latter is actually on record as being alive, well and in glory in the declaration, "I am the God of Abraham, ..." (Matt. 22:32).

Jesus said,

"As for you how fortunate you are! Your eyes see and your ears hear. I assure you that many prophets and many of God's people wanted very much to see what you see, but they could not, and to hear what you hear, but they did not." (Matt. 13: 16-17)

Isn't it time to rethink Christianity?

texastig said:

Thank you for your reply.

Maybe you can help me. What does "Jesus' divine rights of giving up his life and taking it back again" and "The historical antecedents in the books of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the Psalms referred to by Jesus himself to rehabilitate his disciples" have to do with, "any investigative study conducted to date on Biblical means of firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ as proposed by St. Paul"?

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We can surely help each other here.

I submit that firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ, according to Paul and his fellow apostles (Peter and John), is based on the Lord's perfect and diacritical death on the cross as painstakingly taught by Jesus overtime (Acts 1: 1-5). With the benefit of hindsight and the experience of others before us, the prospect is good.

The means of verification are Jesus' LIVE or literally "Spirit-active works" in giving up his life and taking it back exclusively by his own will and power just as he had said (John 10: 17-18, 37-38). There is nothing more exhilarating, even life-transforming, than humbly checking out these works (outlined below).

PRELIMINARY WORKS
1. Single-handedly fixing the day of his death (Matt. 26: 1-5)
2. Self-identification for arrest in spite of the active presence of Judas (John 18: 1-9)
3. Self-surrender for arrest in spite of an armed party of soldiers (John 18: 5-11)
4. Self-incrimination for death sentencing (Matt. 26: 57-68; John 18: 19-24)
5. Self-waiver of appeal of sentencing (John 19: 8-16)

FINAL WORKS
6. Absolute authority over death (Matt. 27:50; John 19:30)
7. Absolute authority over life (Matt. 27: 51-56; John 19: 31-37)

The historical antecedents in the books of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the Psalms can most easily be reconstructed in the prior light of "the first and the last" perfect and transfigurative death on the cross.

Without any limitation, these include "the tree of life" (Gen. 2), "the bush on fire but not burning up", i.e., self-sufficient fire (Ex. 3: 1-15), "the bronze snake on a tree" (Num. 21: 4-9), "the law concerning unsolved murders" applied even by Pilate (Deut. 21: 1-9), "the law of same-day burial of a body hanging on a post" (Deut. 21:22), the terms of the "new covenant" (Jer. 31: 31-34 sealed on the eve of the crucifixion, Matt. 26: 26-29 and ratified thereafter: Ibid, 27: 50-56).

Last but best is the work of the timely outpouring of the Holy Spirit to convict of error, reveal the truth of the divine glory and absolute authority of Jesus as "the Christ, Son of the living God whom not even death will EVER be able to overcome" (Matt. 16:18) and produce firsthand knowledge of God, sustainable faith and brand new lives! AMEN.

I don't understand what your point is. Forgive me.

texastig said:

I don't understand what your point is. Forgive me.

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The answer is in the key as well as the bottom line of Christ's direct and personal self-revelation for anyone who accepts and obeys his death-specific commandments as detailed in the means of verification (John 14: 18-21).

Neither you nor I should presume any other means. Our only option is, therefore, to ask Jesus Christ for understanding in humble prayer. He will only be too happy to oblige (Luke 11: 9-13). AMEN.

God bless you.