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Pretty much all in the title. Having done a little research, I have yet to see anything of double predestination or perseverance of the saints in statements issued by this church, much less limited atonement or anything down that road. What's the experience of Presbyterians today? Do these doctrines still have the force of law, or are they more historical ideas, like the prohibition on religious art?
It's not disappointing to me in the least, actually. The whole church-finding business is back on again in my life, and I'm hoping to find a place nearer my home. One of the churches around is a PCUSA church, and I realized that I'd never really looked into them before.
The PCUSA church of my childhood was affiliated directly with a PCUSA seminary (Dubuque) and reflected then what the PCUSA pretty much now is. What I was taught then was a form of universalism in which God uniquely predestines individuals to go to heaven. However, because God is a God of infinite love and not a God of wrath (that is an OT understanding of God) then God has predestined all of humanity to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Moreover, God created mankind thereby making all of mankind His children without exception. God, being innately good can only create good things. Therefore, when God views humanity, He sees us in His image. As a result, what evil exists in this world is the result of bad social influences and not the result of individual sinfulness. Therefore, intrinsic evil and hell cannot exist because of the infinite goodness and love of God.
I have yet to see a statement from the PCUSA sounding anything like that... is there such a thing?
It's not disappointing to me in the least, actually. The whole church-finding business is back on again in my life, and I'm hoping to find a place nearer my home. One of the churches around is a PCUSA church, and I realized that I'd never really looked into them before.
If you want a very liberal, non-Bible-believing denomination, the PCUSA will fit that requirement.
If you want a very conservatvie, Bible believing church, try a PCA church(Presbyterian Church in America).
Godo luck in your search.
...and there are a dozen other conservative Presbyterian or Reformed denominations also to choose from.
I certainly would not challenge your list or your knowledge of the matter, but the ranking you give us here looks reasonable to me. Out of curiosity, I wonder how you see the (Dutch) Reformed bodies. Are they sufficiently different in some ways that a conservative Presbyterian should not consider them?Yes, that is quite true. I would rank the Presbyterian denominations, from most liberal to most conservative, as PCUSA, ECO, EPC, PCA, Cumberland, OPC, RPC. Bible Presbyterian, RPCNA.
I did not include the Church of Scotland as it is extraordinarily small in the U.S. If I have overlooked some, please feel free to revise my list.
I certainly would not challenge your list or your knowledge of the matter, but the ranking you give us here looks reasonable to me. Out of curiosity, I wonder how you see the (Dutch) Reformed bodies. Are they sufficiently different in some ways that a conservative Presbyterian should not consider them?
Theologically, of course, they are quite similar, but their polity does make some Presbyterians uncomfortable and vice versa. Then there is the issue of ethnic identification. Many Presbyterians, at least in the past, were proudly Scottish as many Dutch Reformed folks were proud of their origins. Most of that has happily faded.
I see. It's not the kiss of death, but some of these historic differences still remain.
Even though I asked the question, I can well appreciate the point, especially when it comes to the "Dutch-ness" that still adheres to most of the Reformed churches in the US.
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