Just Ask! ...Really?

Here is the "Romans Road to Salvation" that explains the gospel of Christ:

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Romans 6:23a "The wages of sin is death"
Romans 6:23b "But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Romans 5:8 "God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!"
Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"
Romans 10:9,10 "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

John 1:12 "As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name!"

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and that He died on the cross for your sins?

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

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Well, why are you doing these things? Is this merely an experiment? A test to see if God will come when you whistle? God doesn't come running merely because we show a vague interest in Him. He isn't like some teenage girl desperate for the slightest sign of interest from the guy she's crushing on. No, God looks on the heart, the Bible says, and acts in response to what is there. He doesn't need you but you absolutely need Him. Is this how you see yourself? As the profoundly needy supplicant you are? If not, perhaps that's the problem.

James 4:6-10 (NKJV)
..."God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
7 Therefore submit to God...
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, yousinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

You cannot come to God as a near-equal. As the old hymn so wonderfully reminds us, "Nothing in my hand I bring, only to thy cross I cling." All who enter the kingdom of God do so on their knees.

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday?

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Good grief, no! Don't live a lie! It makes a very big difference why you are wanting to do things a Christian does. A Christian does what he does because he believes what is revealed of God in the Bible. The prayer, worship, tithing, etc all flow out of that belief.

So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.

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You aren't a puppet; you must choose to believe. Certainly, God has offered sufficient reason to believe in Him. Very few people really have a faith issue. More often than not, the issue is one of control and/or pride. God says to us, "You are a sinner in deep need of my salvation. You are in the wrong and require my forgiveness. I don't need you, but you very much need me. Humble yourself before me in confession of and repentance from your sin." Sticks in the craw, eh? Here's what the Bible says is mostly at the root of people's resistance to Him:

John 3:19
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

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Ugh. Calvinism makes God the devil. Don't go down that road!

Selah.

starbuck55 said:

I have often heard from Christians that if you "open your heart" to God, he will reveal himself to you in your life. And you can replace "open your heart" with...

"pray honestly and openly"
"ask to be saved"
"allow Him into your heart"
"ask for forgiveness and follow"
ect...

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.


The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

Click to expand...

Well you have always got the option to believe the Bible is right and you are wrong, however each time you come to demand God reveal Himself, you are choosing to believe you are right and the Bible is wrong. This is what being humble means, accepting that God is bigger than the whole collective human society and giving Him that due respect. When you have tapped into your capacity to honor God with due respect then your faith will grow. As long as you're intent on forcing God into your own mold then you are not accepting God for who He really is, simply put you are not ready to know God until you have surrendered all that is hindering your relationship with Him. Do you have grudges against God? Begin by addressing those specifically and giving Him the benefit of doubt because you owe it to yourself to give your best effort in seeking the truth about God without being biased or too proud of what you once thought to swallow your words and take a new POV to support God rather than fight Him. It all comes down to honesty, being honest with yourself that you're not denying the truth in favor of a lie just because the lie is sugar coated.

Gods creation is evidence alone. The bible says we are without excuse just with creation, Rom 1:20.
Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/

I suggest he research the credibility of the bible concerning overwhelming evidence which is very high even though it’s a spiritual decision first.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell a former agnostic- (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ and The Real Jesus by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

Do you have the holy spirit? He will give you the power to live a christian life. Human effort alone can't do this. Pray and you will get it.

Take one day at a time and get some inspirational friends that love God by their actions. Read the bible and pray daily. Get involved in a serious church. Its a life long lifestyle and you will know God more and more. True faith is demonstrated by actions than then the feelings will come. Feelings alone are like a roller coaster. Feel free to email me.

starbuck55 said:

I have often heard from Christians that if you "open your heart" to God, he will reveal himself to you in your life. And you can replace "open your heart" with...

"pray honestly and openly"
"ask to be saved"
"allow Him into your heart"
"ask for forgiveness and follow"
ect...

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.


The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

Click to expand...

First the Calvinist does not have this right.

Trust (Faith) in God opposed to trust in self.

First, you have to really want there to be a Loving forgiving God. If you do not want such a God, He is not going to force Himself on you and add to your problems.

The reason you might want there to be a God is; your transgressions against others creates a burden on your conscience. You want to relieve this burden. There are lots of wrong ways to try and relief this burden. Christianity allows you to turn these transgressions into part of your witness of how much difference god has made in your life. There are other things Christianity provides but this burden relief is huge for most people.

Trusting in God’s and Christ’s Love is made easy by Christ going to the cross to take your burden of sin away. No greater Love could be shown by God for you. The suffering Christ went through for your sins is what you deserve for your transgressions, but more importantly is the fact that is what you have been forgiven of, so you will Love much “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

See next post

starbuck55 said:

I have often heard from Christians that if you "open your heart" to God, he will reveal himself to you in your life. And you can replace "open your heart" with...

"pray honestly and openly"
"ask to be saved"
"allow Him into your heart"
"ask for forgiveness and follow"
ect...

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.


The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

Click to expand...

How exactly do you want God to make himself known to you? What are you expecting?

starbuck55 said:

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

Click to expand...

What are you expecting? There doesn't have to be a big, emotional moment with salvation. Pop Christianity does sometimes lead us to think so, but not all of us are natured that way. If you have prayed sincerely and believe that Jesus is the son of God and your sins are forgiven through Him, then you are saved, even if you don't feel anything in that moment or nothing seems to happen.

So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.

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Sometimes that helps. I know I struggled with God and the question of if I was really saved for years, and there were times when the only faith I had seemed to be just following the motions. The thing is that doing those things, praying (and taking time to contemplate and "listen" in prayer), reading the Bible, worshiping God, and follow the Bible did help me believe and grow closer to Him. You have to ask yourself if you can believe in your mind even when you're not feeling it in your heart sometimes.

I read this blog recently, and it goes into this further:
Gentle Suggestions for Doubting Christians

The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

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I think about this myself, but I believe that if we are not among the elect then we would not care or desire to be saved. If you believe in election or predestination, then I think that seeking salvation is evidence that God is calling you to Him.

starbuck55 said:

I have often heard from Christians that if you "open your heart" to God, he will reveal himself to you in your life. And you can replace "open your heart" with...

"pray honestly and openly"
"ask to be saved"
"allow Him into your heart"
"ask for forgiveness and follow"
ect...

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.


The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of good posts in this thread already. I'll keep mine short...

What do you want to happen?

Well here's my .02, w/ the disclaimer that there is no magic wand or spell because G-d looks on the HEART, and when you seek Him with your WHOLE HEART you will find Him:

1. Approach the Bible with the attitude that it is God speaking to you, telling you about how to relate to Him. Pray with a quiet, meditative spirit, for exactly that. Ask Him to show Himself strong to you, in ways you haven't known yet. It's ok to stir up your hunger, but try not to let that stir up your emotions.

2. Do this every morning, and every evening. We can talk about Scriptural reasons in depth later, but it is God's way.

3. As you read, anything that looks good PRAY FOR IT. Specific examples I've found powerful:

a. Isaiah 50:4 "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to [him that is] weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. (Jesus got this, prophetically. Talk about humility!)

b. “That[wash my mouth]the[wash my mouth]God[wash my mouth]of[wash my mouth]our Lord Jesus Christ,[wash my mouth]the[wash my mouth]Father[wash my mouth]of[wash my mouth]glory, may give unto you[wash my mouth]the[wash my mouth]spirit[wash my mouth]of[wash my mouth]wisdom[wash my mouth]and[wash my mouth]revelation[wash my mouth]in[wash my mouth]the knowledge[wash my mouth]of[wash my mouth]him:” Eph 1:17

c. Realize EVERY instance of "the wicked man" in Proverbs is you (me / us).
Yeah, ouch.

4. If there's time for more involved praying after this, fine; but more likely there will be other things you need to go do. Don't think they take you away from God because they DON'T! Just don't leave home w/o Him. It's in the doing that prayer seems to be most helpful. "Pray w/o ceasing," keep a prayerful attitude; there is room in His kingdom for our own unique style. The calling is to abundant LIFE.

Dear Starbuck55. Your profile tells us that you believe in Atheistic Evolution. I ask this humbly and with love, how does God fit in there? Whom are you asking? To ask God, we must know God, He is our Heavenly Father, and He is LOVE. If we ask God, He sees our hearts and knows that we ask sincerely, and we will keep asking until we have our answers. Often, our questions concern others, as well, and we know that God does not force, or coerce in any way. Then we have to wait for the answers to our prayers to become recognisable, and that only can happen if, and when the prayed for person, will change, or become amenable. If it is just a straightforward question, or plea, God will answer our prayer immediately. We have to ask with love and thankfulness, and look forward to our prayer being answered, and never forget to thank God for His Love to us. God is no Magician, who satisfies for only a short while, God is our loving Heavenly Father, who gives us what we ask for, and ONLY if it is for our own GOOD, Starbuck. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

starbuck55 said:

I figured the whole idea was that God or Holy Spirit somehow enters you, and you believe. I wanted to know how one allows this spirit and belief to enter.

I wouldn't say I had a vague interest. Though honestly, I kinda think God would be interested in even a slight interest.

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As strange as this sounds, I agree w/ that last sentence. My first Pastor said"if you give God your little toe, He'll use it. Of course He can do more with both feet." We all start somewhere, and none of us are complete yet.

You are correct that you can't "just choose to believe it." You need to retain intellectual integrity, otherwise all you're doing is paying lip-service. Rest assured that the G-d who knows our very thoughts and can even discern those from our intents, also perceive this difference!

So - how to allow this Spirit and belief to enter? Personally it's all about reading the Bible. I believe I posted what I find to be a very helpful attitude and approach to this earlier in the thread. Be honest with it, but also don't be quick to declare you know (all of) what it means. You'll spend some time in the uncomfortable stage of knowing what it says but not necessarily what it means. Some things we can help you with, other things must be learned individually.

A real key is the first step of approach, we meet the "Lion of Judah." He's a bad boy! Humility is essential.

starbuck55 said:

I would want to present everything I have to God, and have Him choose me, and let me know he has done this. Is this too much to ask?

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No it's not, and we're promised and guaranteed of this! You haven't gotten it, so I hope you don't mind me pointing out a slight error in your approach? Refer to the above Lion. It is not you He chose, nor me, nor any of us. Jesus is chosen, and for very specific reasons. He was given a Name above every name not only for those reasons, but because He fulfilled His calling completely Faithfully. He alone is trustworthy!

Our destination is to be "in Christ." Those are 2 very loaded words, and much of the Christian fellowship on this site is devoted to sharing what it has come to mean to us, individually. None of us really "get it" completely yet! Which means there's a lot to it.

starbuck55 said:

I don't think I have any grudges. Would grudges actually keep God away though, if I'm honestly praying to him?

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YES!! This is unbelievably powerful in the Kingdom. I can't really tell you why, but it is observable. One of the nice things about being led by the Holy Spirit is He "flushes these problems to the surface." It's good to learn some of these things before getting too close to that Lion.

There comes a point where physical Baptism is hugely important, and that may not be far away, but you're not ready for that yet.

I don't know if I do. Probably not based on what people say about the spirit.

Well, I can go through the actions, but they won't mean anything if I don't actually believe.

I do want a loving forgiving God, who wouldn't? No, it isn't about sins really. It's more about the Truth about our purpose, and the purpose of the entire universe. What I should do during my time here on Earth, and if there is a God out there who put me here for some reason. I would want to do the things he wants us to do.

I have no idea. If He is real, I want to believe, that's all.

Yes, I'm doing this, so I will continue.

I don't have a belief in God, so Atheistic Evolution is probably the closest thing to how I view the world right now. Of course, I am more than willing to admit this could change. It has in the past.

starbuck55 said:

When a God says that you have to sacrifice everything to Him, but I won't actually reveal myself to you... it seems wrong to me somehow.

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I agree. My first Pastor started performing as a professional musician at the age of 2, so you can well imagine that by the time he was an adult he was already very steeped in sin. I don't know exactly how old he was when he came to the Lord, but he prayed to the effect of "God if you're real I want to know, and if you're not I'm sorry I wasted my time."

Apparently G-d was not offended by his candor I encourage you to continue to be real about this!

starbuck55 said:

I have often heard from Christians that if you "open your heart" to God, he will reveal himself to you in your life. And you can replace "open your heart" with...

"pray honestly and openly"
"ask to be saved"
"allow Him into your heart"
"ask for forgiveness and follow"
ect...

I'm having trouble with this. It doesn't seem to work for me. I try praying, and asking, honestly and openly. I ask for forgiveness, and pray to be saved. But nothing seems to happen. Now I have to assume there is more to it then just "asking".

I don't know, I guess it doesn't make sense. I know you aren't supposed to test God. So, am I just supposed to do the things that one expects from a Christian (pray,worship,tithe,follow commandments), and hope that maybe God will make himself known to me someday? So, essentially, I have to act like I believe, in hopes that later I will believe? It disturbs me that if God exists, and knows what it would take for me to believe, wouldn't just do it.


The only other thing I wonder is if the Calvinists have it right. Some people just aren't chosen to be saved, and instead their heart is hardened.

Click to expand...

Hello! The first verse that came to my mind when I read your post was

Jer. 29 [11] For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
[12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
[13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

In context this has to do with the Jewish Captivity, but yea it fits all that are looking for the God who created them.

Reasons that my be blocking your discover of God could be sin, there my be something in your life that you may be unwilling to give up. Something the Word is against where you feel giving it up would not be worth it, unbearable or make you an outcast.

Another reason that may be blocking you discover of the Lord Jesus Christ is information. There is all types of infomation out there about "Christianity" that really turns me off as a young man in Christ. The best teacher in the world is the Holy Spirit. You alone with the Bible in your hand seeking is the best way... Let him speak to you through His Word, that is where you will find Him. Seek Him there...diligently seek Him... It may sound corny but He loves you.

The term "born again" is very important, Im sure that you have heard of it. It is essential to becoming a christian. It may sound crazy to you but it is the reality of the christian. That is the moment one becomes a christian, it is the seal of the beliver. The Holy Spirit comes within your being and remains with you until you are put into the ground. God in you, its awesome I would be willing to clearify more but tangents are for the birds

Hi Starbuck55

Your concern with eternity and desire to find truth is a sign that God's Spirit is already gently guiding you. That means that salvation is most assuredly available for you. If you have a hard time believing, you are most welcome to confess this to God and humbly ask Him to give you faith to believe in the truth. He most certainly will do just that. I had the same struggle many years ago, and asked the Lord to strengthen my faith. He is still answering that prayer continuously to this very day.

The Lord has blessed me with numerous divine encounters that cemented my faith to the point that I no more just believe in the existence of God and His love, but know it for a fact. If you'd like me to share some of those testimonies, feel free to PM me - I'd be delighted to share the awesome things that God has done in my life.

Kind regards
Andre

starbuck55 said:

I don't think I have any grudges. Would grudges actually keep God away though, if I'm honestly praying to him? Why would He do that?

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Well this is the thing about being humble to God: that He doesn't have a fault, if you do have a grudge then it is your problem that whenever you think of His holy name this grudge pops up and pushes you away from Him.

God is a loving father, He emits pure love to us, and this promise is reflected in the perfection of creation. Study all theories of science and you'll learn how perfect our Lord is. If you have a grudge, you're more or less saying "I don't like this about you" or "you're not quite good enough" and it's an action on your part, not His. God doesn't hold grudges, but He walks with us patiently until we reach out for help.

You're on the journey whether you realise or not, one day soon you'll wind up having a clear stand on your relationship with God, and remember that Christianity is not a specific way to live righteously, it is the discussion and sharing for a deeper understanding of the matters pertaining to one very special person - the one who died and was raised to conquer death.

So in this world where our free ride is a ticket to hell, there is only one man who has provided the one and only way to eat of the tree of life in paradise, and as far as I know the Lord doesn't require anything of us but to be honest in our representation of "truth". The truth about God and who Jesus is.

If you want to make a discernment to be impartial in your search, I'm pretty sure it is God you want to be friends with and not His enemy and that means you have to deal with all grudges and establish your standing with God and be wary of the enemy.

Hi Starbuck55,

I have another comment regarding your motive to discover God. It seems that you have a hunger for knowledge but no regret for your sins. I hope I can express this fully enough that Christianity isn't a party club you sign up to get front-row tickets to watch the universe unfold (although this sort of knowledge comes from the tree of life in the paradise of God - look at Revelation 2:7).

There is a danger involved in handing out these tickets to just everyone who comes along asking for it, as you say there is a risk of the entire universe being destroyed by God's enemy. How might this happen? By the enemy becoming the ruler of the universe, ruling by knowledge. So Godly knowledge is a valuable commodity here on earth, and not everyone who asks is ready to receive. As Jesus tells us in Revelation 2:7 that we must overcome the enemy. This means to deal with everything the enemy throws at you to turn you away from God. You'll have to be proactive all through this process and right up to the end of your life, there is no fooling God saying "you can trust me" without having 100% of your heart with you.

Take a scenario where one of Satan's human followers were to gain access to the tree of life without being subservient to God. That person would rise to rule the world, but the point I want to make is that there is only one gate to enter heaven and at that gate you must surrender everything that is against God. I believe that when the body is finished there is no more temptation to keep us from making that decision, however many people believe it is too late to repent when you die. I don't have any authority to argue for or against this, the keys to hades belong to Jesus and His judgment is perfect.

If you want the reality of Christianity instead of the fake "I'm a good person" religion of Christianity, if you really want it to radiate from your heart you have to be prepared to consider yourself subservient to God, that means elevating God to the throne of your heart. Without actually having a conversation with you it is too difficult for me to suggest what might be keeping you from accepting God fully, but from experience the reason would be well known to you and perhaps you have suppressed the voice of your conscience (as you have said you don't feel remorse for committing any sins, it is normal for someone not having the spirit of God to feel that they are a pretty decent person, due to the gage we use to define sin, only God is perfectly holy and sinless, until we achieve the same status as Him, we are ALL definitely sinners and our conscience DOES know it).

Hope this helps understand the need for repentance a little bit better, you'll certainly not enter the family of God until you accept that He is perfect and you (as are all humans) are not perfect according to His definition of holiness. This is what subservience means, Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life, noone comes to the father except through me". So coming to know God the father of life means to be subservient to Jesus. Learn all you can about who He is, His nature, His teachings and exalt Him to the throne of your heart, that is where He ought to dwell in your life and when you give Him the worship He deserves then your faith will grow and He will become more real to you with every day you spend together