Judas

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil."
Joh 6:71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.

Interesting scripture, whats your thoughts about it ??

My thoughts?

Two things come to mind:

1. I think I'm tired of seeing this misused as a proof against the doctrine of perseverance simply because the word "chose" is used in conjunction with Judas.

2. I think that this verse shows clearly that not all who are with us are necessarily of us (1 John 2:19), and that eventually such things are almost always made manifest.

He chose Judas as a Disciple for a specific purpose, just as he chose the rest for their specific purpose.

NASB Luke 22:21-22
"But behold, the hand
of the one betraying Me is with Mine on
the table. 22 "For indeed, the Son of
Man is going as it has been determined;
but woe to that man by whom He is
betrayed!"

NASB Mark 14:17-21
"When it was evening
He came with the twelve. 18 As they
were reclining at the table and eating,
Jesus said, "Truly I say to you that one
of you will betray Me -- one who is
eating with Me." 19 They began to be
grieved and to say to Him one by one,
"Surely not I?" 20 And He said to them,
"It is one of the twelve, one who dips
with Me in the bowl. 21 "For the Son of
Man is to go just as it is written of Him;
but woe to that man by whom the Son of
Man is betrayed! It would have been
good for that man if he had not been
born."

NASB Matt 26:20-25
"Now when evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the twelve disciples. 21
As they were eating, He said, "Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me." 22 Being deeply grieved,
they each one began to say to Him, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 And He answered, "He who dipped his hand
with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 "The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him;
but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not
been born." 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, "Surely it is not I, Rabbi?" Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself."

the main point is that Judas did not happen to be chosen without a good reason ...... Jesus knew all about Judas a long time before Judas betrayed Jesus.


It is also interesting how Judas gets to look after the common purse , he was stealing from it , but providence dictated that Judas would have the common purse.

This might be a harsh statement but it shows that Judas was already condemned before he was born just as the other disciples were who were not condemned and were guaranteed of God's mercy and grace upon them before they were born.

James1979 said:

This might be a harsh statement but it shows that Judas was already condemned before he was born just as the other disciples were who were not condemned and were guaranteed of God's mercy and grace upon them before they were born.

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Not harsh at all, Biblical.

Eph 4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will


Rom 17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

My thoughts have already been presented through what other posters have said. I would add that those verses show how predestination is used.

(Joh 6:70) Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil."
(Joh 6:71) He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.

Personaly to me this verus shows that their will always be people who look and acted like a Christian but the truth is that when something comes against them their true believe comes out. Thus some think they walk away from the Faith, but the Truth is they were never in the Faith.

If God ordained Judas to betray Jesus why does God say" woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

orthedoxy said:

If God ordained Judas to betray Jesus why does God say" woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

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because it's a true statement?

orthedoxy said:

If God ordained Judas to betray Jesus why does God say" woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

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It seems you are coming the the angle that we should not be held accountable for the sin of Adam, and the sins we commit. As though, it's God's fault we are condemed because he created us.

Imblessed said:

because it's a true statement?

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When God predestines something wouldn't he get the credit for the act?

tigersnare said:

It seems you are coming the the angle that we should not be held accountable for the sin of Adam, and the sins we commit. As though, it's God's fault we are condemed because he created us.

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I don't think we do inherent the guilt of Adam.
ezek 18: 19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

I don't understand what does that have to do with Judas Predestined to betray Jesus?

orthedoxy said:

When God predestines something wouldn't he get the credit for the act?

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Look at Acts 2:32. The Holy Spirit, through Peter, states that Jesus was ordained by God to be crufidied by wicked men, but Peter also states that those who crucified Jesus would be held accountable for their sin. God frequently uses natural means to bring about His will.