John Hagee

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

I was listening to John Hagee at my neighbor's apartment on TBN and I was astounded at all the false doctrines he proposes. One that I think I noticed was soul sleep. Does he preach the doctrine of soul sleep? When the show first came on I noticed that he had a board up showing some stuff about some previous sermons he preached. Apparently he has recently preached the dangerous anti-Catholic "Mystery Babylon Religion" type sermon. I was shocked and became sick at my stomach just listening to that. Not to mention that he believes not in a second coming but also in a third. What I mean is he is pre-tribulational. Lord help me! My neighbor is being fed a bunch of false doctrine and she doesn't even know it! What hope do those have who ignorantly believe such false doctrines?

marianservant · Jul 25, 2005

I have watched him, he is just another jerry falwell, all we can do is pray for him to recieve truth.

NDIrish · Jul 25, 2005

Holly3278 said:
What hope do those have who ignorantly believe such false doctrines?

The grace of God, and prayer

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

NDIrish said:
The grace of God, and prayer

But what about if they never quit believing in such false doctrines and never become Catholic? Do they still have a chance at Heaven? If so, is it a much smaller chance than if they had become Catholic?

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

marianservant said:
I have watched him, he is just another jerry falwell, all we can do is pray for him to recieve truth.

Oh he is? I don't listen to him very often but listening to him for the mere 20 minutes that I did listen to him made me sick to my stomach at all the false doctrines he preaches. And believe me, I am no expert on theology but I was easily able to pick out a number of false doctrines.

Franze · Jul 25, 2005

Invincible ignorance or perjuidices to know the truth, Only God knows.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

I was just offered the opportunity to witness to her again and praise God that the Lord gave me the words to say! She asked a few questions. I thought it was all over today when she said she didn't want to discuss it anymore but praise be to God that the Holy Spirit is still opening up opportunities for me to witness to her. Everyone, please keep her in your prayers!

MParedon · Jul 25, 2005

There is a new station (new to me) that I found and one night I saw a show that I thought was mocking Christianity. I thought it was a skit, but sadly it wasn't, I was further saddened because I've seen other shows on that station that are relatively stable and worth watching (even though they do not teach full Catholic Doctrine). I don't know if anyone knows which show I'm talking about but it seemed like it was a sort of John Edwards-type 'prophecies' asking for pledges.
The thing is, that people have to sift through so much 'stuff' that's out there that I feel bad for the people that are confused and willing to listen more to things that seem more novel or engaging.

MParedon · Jul 25, 2005

Holly, just read your last post. That is so wonderful! I will pray to the Holy Spirit right now.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

MParedon said:
Holly, just read your last post. That is so wonderful! I will pray to the Holy Spirit right now.

Thank you MParedon. Donna needs all the prayers she can get. I am hoping and praying that eventually she'll consider Catholicism. When she was over here earlier she kept saying that the Catholic Bible does not contain the Book of Esther. Well, I got out my Catholic Bible and proved to her that it is in there. Praise God I'm already helping her!

Lifesaver · Jul 25, 2005

Holly3278 said:
But what about if they never quit believing in such false doctrines and never become Catholic? Do they still have a chance at Heaven? If so, is it a much smaller chance than if they had become Catholic?

Holly, the only possible way someone who is not materially Catholic may be saved is if they were in a state of invincible ignorance and in line with natural law.

This man apparently takes the trouble to know the Catholic Church, has broad oportunity to see it is the turth, and does not convert.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

Lifesaver said:
Holly, the only possible way someone who is not materially Catholic may be saved is if they were in a state of invincible ignorance and in line with natural law.

This man apparently takes the trouble to know the Catholic Church, has broad oportunity to see it is the turth, and does not convert.

Could you define invincibly ignorant please?

Michelina · Jul 25, 2005

Mod Hat On

Please remember that non-catholics view our threads.

Resist the temptation to post oversimplistic statements.

Here is the teaching of the Church on Salvation outside the Church:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

Michelina · Jul 25, 2005

This man apparently takes the trouble to know the Catholic Church, has broad oportunity to see it is the truth, and does not convert.

If the man knows it is the truth, then he is culpable. He must truly KNOW it is the truth. If he does not recognise it as such, he must follow the dictates of his conscience.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

Michelina said:
If the man knows it is the truth, then he is culpable. He must truly KNOW it is the truth. If he does not recognise it as such, he must follow the dictates of his conscience.

So one must know that the Catholic Church is the truth in order to be held accountable?

Michelina · Jul 25, 2005

Holly3278 said:
So one must know that the Catholic Church is the truth in order to be held accountable?

Yes, Holly.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

Michelina said:
Yes, Holly.

Oh okay. Please continue to pray for Donna that she may come to the Truth. I don't see it happening but God can work miracles.

Michelina · Jul 25, 2005

Holly3278 said:
Oh okay. Please continue to pray for Donna that she may come to the Truth. I don't see it happening but God can work miracles.

Prayer can work miracles. Yesterday, I got some really great news about someone (whom one would have thought would never do so) opening her heart to Catholicism. Humanly speaking, it's inexplicable. But nothing is impossible to God!

Let's pray for this grace for all people, especially those whom we love.

Ave Maria · Jul 25, 2005

Michelina said:
Prayer can work miracles. Yesterday, I got some really great news about someone (whom one would have thought would never do so) opening her heart to Catholicism. Humanly speaking, it's inexplicable. But nothing is impossible to God!

Let's pray for this grace for all people, especially those whom we love.

You're right but Donna seems so hopeless. I want soo much for her to come to the Truth of Catholicism.

Michelina · Jul 25, 2005

Holly3278 said:
You're right but Donna seems so hopeless. I want soo much for her to come to the Truth of Catholicism.

Just keep praying and entrust her to God's loving care.

If you know the Divine Mercy Chaplet, use it. It's powerful.

John Hagee

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