I've probably stirred up a hornet's nest....

Is Allah a trinitarian god?

GraceSeeker said: ↑
We would be in agreement with that concept of believing, that to believe God one would have to believe IN God. Given that, my question then is, in light of that concept, how does believing IN GOD become synonymous with believing certain sets of doctrines base on one's interpretation of the Bible, rather than just trusting in God himself?

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brinny said:

Believing God means taking God at His Word. His Word is the Bible. Interpretation of His Word is done by His Holy Spirit.

This verse comes to mind:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." ~Jeremiah 33:3

"Calling" unto God is seeking Him in His Word. When we seek Him through His Word, He, by His Holy Spirit, teaches us/shows us "great and mighty things" we previously did not know.

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GraceSeeker said:

Actually, Jesus is his Word.

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Read my response again to what you posted.

Thank you kindly.

How is Jesus like Allah? Is Jesus like Baal?

GraceSeeker said:

OK. Well, I think we differ on what it was that Paul was doing. So, it follows that if we differ in our understanding of the God who Paul worshipped that we most certainly are going to differ in our understanding of who it is that Muslims worship today.

I do agree that Muslims would have us return to law as a way to righteousness. This is one of my most critical observations with regard to Islam. But as far as God goes, I believe that there is only one God. And I believe that all people who are seeking to worship God are therefore seeking after the one who is the Creator. They may not know him as also being Redeemer as I do, but that doesn't mean that because they are unaware or misunderstanding of this aspect of his revelation, it does not follow (at least not in my opinion it does not) that they are therefore worshipping a different God.

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I think I see where you are coming from a bit better now. I wonder, what is your definition of idolatry? Is it just the worship of literal idols, or is it also worshiping a false god?

GraceSeeker said:

In response to a comment in another thread I have made a rather lengthy response. I'm sure that given the place in which it is posted that it will stir up a hornet's nest. So be it. I didn't post for that purpose, but realize I may have to live with that sort of fallout.

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That is very well written and thought out! You may indeed stir up a hornets nest.

I seldom post outside the Wesleyan forum because Wesleyan theology is so different than many of the fundamentalist Calvinists who seem to be one of the largest populations on the larger forum.

I don't know that much of a "hornet's nest" will be stirred up by Graceseeker's thread here...

That other thread is kind of bizarre to me, what I personally feel about "other religions" is that the ones which came BEFORE Christianity were "doing the best they could" -- and in some way its like in Romans 1 -- what could be known about God was made known to them by the things that appear

Once Jesus came -- I really don't understand why God allowed Islam to appear and spread; I don't understand how Mormonism appeared and became so popular -- I just don't get it...

I like BhaghaVad Gita and Hindu stuff, Buddhist stuff, and Judaism is in a special class by itself

I find paradoxes everywhere, I sympathize with circuitrider's comment that we Wesleyans are sort of "outnumbered by Calvinists" -- on CF and, imo, on Christian message boards in general

And a major paradox is Wesley's attitude toward Calvinists -- at one point "if your heart is as my heart, give me your hand" -- he and Whitefield shared a concern for evangelism -- yet I read somewhere that Wesley also said of Calvinism "its God is my Devil" or words to that effect

I'm glad the label is simply "Methodist" here at CF

I was in 9th grade and attended the convention in Dallas where the UNITED Methodist Church came into being -- us MYF kids were told "there will be people from Africa there in their native costumes!"

Hoo-wah.

Now with this "gay stuff" and people saying "UMC is gonna SPLIT!", gosh, is it even GOOD that such diverse cultures are joined in the same denomination?

As a kid, I wasn't aware of the 'theological implications' of the joining into UMC -- it was just a chance to sit next to Shelley from another church across town on the bus to the convention and back...

I guess I expected Africans tapping their spears on the floor chanting "Zulu! Zulu!" at the convention, it was disappointing, just a few colored robes...

Should our modern American view towards Muslims, Mormons, LGBT and all be 'held hostage' as a denomination to "less than progressive" views of cultures that are not like us at all? I dunno how many in Wesley's Parish are non-American, non-British or what not, the denomination's response to things is in some way stifled by its inclusiveness of third world countries -- is a SPLIT a BAD thing?

Sigh.

I guess we gotta "take the high road" toward accepting muslims, gays -- whatever -- Charlie Daniels sang:

"You can call him Jehovah, you can call him Allah, you can call him Jesus, or any other name
No matter what you call him, no matter how you see him, there is only one
So they got to be the same"

True in one sense, but its just a Charlie Daniels song, it's not the Bible

I tried reading Book of Mormon til I got to a point where it said God made black people AS A CURSE; then I put it back on the shelf

I have the Pickthall translation of Koran into English - just seems like a STEP BACKWARDS from the New Testament ta me

I mellowed towards Calvinists over time...

Perhaps my views towards Muslims and Mormons will change as well; I'm sure God loves them and gays and Calvinists and everybody

Jesus loves the little children -- all the little children of the world

Kum Bah Yah

Of late I'm more mellow towards Muslims and Mormons than I am Calvinists Anto9us.

I feel like several branches of Calvinist thinking have done about as much to mess up the church as anything I can think.

I can see why Wesley was so strong in his views about it.

circuitrider said:

I feel like several branches of Calvinist thinking have done about as much to mess up the church as anything I can think.

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I know THAT's right...

Years ago there was a BBS system where, like, one "ENGINE" supplied dozens of separate boards.

Calvinists weren't content to ban me ONE BOARD AT A TIME, but tried to ban me from the whole ENGINE

lol

---
What a sad echo of something John Wesley (an Arminian) once said to George Whitefield (a Calvinist): “Your God is my devil”.

above is from

on “Your God is my devil” – Walking With Giants

Wow, that is vindictive of them.

Vindictive, yes. Technically doable, no. They were not able to 'Mass-Ban me' from all the boards driven by that 'ENGINE'

And on SOME of the boards, I somehow got ADMIN rights -- and CHANGED their posts from Calvinist content to Arminian!!

It was a blast