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Nic Samojluk

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The Scriptures are silent in defining when one becomes a person.

The Bible is not silent on the killing of an unborn child. The following is found in Exodus 21, and the penalty imposed is life for life.

New International Version (©1984)
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman's husband demands and the judges approve.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"This is what you must do whenever men fight and injure a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely. If there are no other injuries, the offender must pay whatever fine the court allows the woman's husband to demand.
 
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redleghunter

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Indeed you are correct. But folks still kick at the goads. Enjoy.

Abortion: Biblical exegesis of Exodus 21:22ff

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...arding-abortion.7926139/page-28#post-69098322

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...r-for-the-babies.7922364/page-3#post-68987259

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-abortion-is-immoral.7923648/page-34#post-69060024
 
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redleghunter

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And also this:


Abortion: The Mind of God on our humanity; How TaNaKh Jews viewed conception

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-abortion-is-immoral.7923648/page-42#post-69090685
 
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ToddNotTodd

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JackRT

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Exodus 21: 22 If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child, and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life. 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

If this passage be read in it's complete historical context, what we learn is that in the case of an accidentally induced abortion (the fetus is dead) then the father has a right to financial compensation for future loss of income (labour if a boy and both labour and dowry if a girl). However if the mother is killed, it becomes a far more serious offense. The death of the fetus is clearly not regarded as seriously as the mother's death.
 
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redleghunter

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nomadictheist

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If you look at the historical context that is because children, like the slaves mentioned only a couple verses earlier, are considered property. You will note that a man who beats his servant to death is also not executed.

But beyond that, I'm not sure which version you're using, but the translation disagrees with most scholarly translations of the text. Most versions translate it "If her fruit depart from her..." or "Gives birth prematurely" (the former being the literal translation, the latter being what it means in modern terms) and "If harm is done, you shall render life for life... etc." This translation is in agreement with the Hebrew concordance of the Old Testament, and does not specify that she "miscarries," nor does it specify that the harm must be done to the woman.
 
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redleghunter

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That's completely incorrect. But understandable. There are a lot of bad English language translations of the Hebrew.

The scholars who used miscarriage or still birth are clearly in error. They form a very small minority and have engaged in eisegesis, the method of interpreting scriptures with a bias.

In order to determine the exact meaning of a word in the Bible you need a literal word for word translation and look back at the Hebrew for Exodus 21. Those trying to use miscarriage or still born are likely using a dynamic equivalent or paraphrase translation and not a literal word for word translation.


The majority of scholars who ascribe to the Hebrew and Greek lexicon.

Here is the passage in question.

Exodus 21: King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Now another word for word literal translation from a modern English version.

Exodus 21: NASB


"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that shegives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21:22-25 NASB
http://bible.com/100/exo.21.22-25.NASB


Now we take a look at the Hebrew lexicon.



If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judgesdetermine.

So that her fruit:

Hebrew: יֶלֶד yeled

he KJV translates Strongs H3206 in the following manner:child (72x),young man (7x), young ones (3x),sons (3x), boy (2x), fruit (1x), variant(1x).


child, son, boy, offspring, youth

  1. child, son, boy

  2. child, children

  3. descendants

  4. youth
Yeled is not not miscarriage nor still birth, it's a live child.

Is there a Hebrew word for miscarriage and stillborn? Yes and it is not Yeled.

Exodus 23: KJV


26 There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

The above now in the Hebrew lexicon:
שָׁכֹל shakol


The KJV translates Strongs H7921 in the following manner:bereave(10x),barren (2x), childless (2x), cast young (2x), cast a calf (1x), lost children (1x),rob of children (1x),deprived (1x), misc (5x).


שָׁכֹלshâkôl, shaw-kole'; a primitive root; properly, to miscarry, i.e. suffer abortion; by analogy, to bereave (literally or figuratively):—bereave (of children), barren, cast calf (fruit, young), be (make) childless, deprive, destroy, × expect, lose children, miscarry, rob of children, spoil.


So we can see shakol is not used inExodus 21:22ff.

Yaled is alive; shakol is miscarriage.
 
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SteveB28

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Your question makes no sense. I ACCEPTED your numbers. The point I made was that sudden increase would represent the number of women who were either unable to procure a termination previously, or who would have resorted to a back-yard practitioner. So the news you present is all good!
 
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Belk

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If you are trying to convince me that we should not look to this book for moral guidance you are doing a good job. Why should we follow a book that views people as property and beating them as OK as long as they don't die in three days?
 
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