Issues in Scienceville.

Jazer · Jun 10, 2011

selfinflikted said:
I've always wondered: If Jesus died for our sins, why do people still go to hell?

It is not what He does for us, it is the work that God does IN US. We are to be born again. We put off the old and put on the new. We become new in Christ. I can not quit sinning on my own apart from God. He has to do a work in me to help me to quit being a sinner. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. So people get to choose if they want life or death, health or sickness, poverty or prosperity. That is the choice we make for us and for our children.

As far as hell, no one gets away with anything. God is a God of justice, absolute and perfect. So people get exactly what justice demands. What we sow is what we will reap.

selfinflikted · Jun 10, 2011

Jazer said:
It is not what He does for us, it is the work that God does IN US. We are to be born again. We put off the old and put on the new. We become new in Christ. I can not quit sinning on my own apart from God. He has to do a work in me to help me to quit being a sinner. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. So people get to choose if they want life or death, health or sickness, poverty or prosperity. That is the choice we make for us and for our children.

But there is no one without sin, according to Christians. God must not be working hard enough?

Still doesn't answer my original question though.

Nathan Poe · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
Not so and not how it works.

Book of Job, anyone? God will sell you out in a heartbeat on a bet.

Rescued from death.

And yet, everything still dies.

Quote from firefighter on scene: "It's a good thing we saved that house from burning down!"

I believe God might see it that way also. That's why He sent Jesus to remedy it. He took the responsibility.

And yet, according to your own theology, Satan is still running loose. So much for "responsibility."

Well, if you are right and there is nothing after death... so what? We've done all we can here.

Have we really? Have you given any thought to what happens here after you're gone?

If we are both wrong we'll just have to see how it works out and hope for the best. To me this is a such ridiculous train of thought, though, because I know God is real.

So it's pride more than anything else -- you "know" it, so it must be so. What you don't know is "ridiculous," so it cannot be.

We aren't in the matrix. We are in real life and God is what it's all about.

Because you say so? Why should I believe you?

There is just too much going on to think it is all a big mechanical evolutionary wheel that rolls about in space and one day might all just be sucked into itself and cease to exist. Talk about a fairy tale with a modern twist. One big Sci-fi fairytale.

So, you've got nothing but your own incredulity to go on, do you? You refuse to believe it, and your refusal means what, exactly?

I miss the good old days when Christians practiced humility -- sadly, the old schoolers are few and far between.

No fairies involved just a loving God.

The biggest fairy of all for the biggest fairy tale -- with precious little love in it.

Perhaps you'd care to answer my other question: Is Osama bin Laden in/going to hell, and if so, why?

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Better question: Is Osama bin Laden in hell?

If so, why?

I want a sincere, Biblical answer for this one...

It's the same answer for everyone NP. We are all born into death apart from God and bound for hell. There is only ONE thing that can keep us from that and that is believing in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. There is only ONE sin that keeps you bound for hell and that is rejecting Jesus Christ as your Saviour. IF Osama bin Laden believed and received Jesus as his personal Saviour before he died, he will be with the Lord right now, if he did not, he will be in hell. There will be no virgins waiting for him and no friends or good rewards. He will be alone in his torment without hope and without God. That's the truth for EVERYONE. We are ALL bound for Hell. Jesus is the way OUT of Hell. Believe in Him and you are delivered from Hell. That's the sincere biblical answer.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

AV1611VET · Jun 10, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Book of Job, anyone? God will sell you out in a heartbeat on a bet.

You sound like Job's wife.

Nathan Poe · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
It's the same answer for everyone NP. We are all born into death apart from God and bound for hell. There is only ONE thing that can keep us from that and that is believing in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. There is only ONE sin that keeps you bound for hell and that is rejecting Jesus Christ as your Saviour. IF Osama bin Laden believed and received Jesus as his personal Saviour before he died, he will be with the Lord right now, if he did not, he will be in hell. There will be no virgins waiting for him and no friends or good rewards. He will be alone in his torment without hope and without God. That's the truth for EVERYONE. We are ALL bound for Hell. Jesus is the way OUT of Hell. Believe in Him and you are delivered from Hell. That's the sincere biblical answer.

Which means that the blood of the thousands of people on OBL's hands means exactly nothing. He could've just as easily been an average Joe (or average Ali) on the streets of Saudi Arabia, could've invented a cure for cancer, or could've rescued a bunch of kittens and orphans from a house fire -- he'd be in the exact same hell. And for what? For believing in a fairy tale different from your own.

Gotta tell you, I'm not seeing the appeal here.

Insane_Duck · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
No fairies involved just a loving God.

What is the difference?

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Book of Job, anyone? God will sell you out in a heartbeat on a bet.

God never sold Job out. God knew that Job was a perfect man and was up to the test. In the end Job came out on top with double blessings in his life, just as God had predicted.

And yet, everything still dies.

Not the same death we're talking about here and yet, one day even the natural death will end. It's all explained in the Word of God.

And yet, according to your own theology, Satan is still running loose. So much for "responsibility."

That will end, too. Also, explained in the Bible.

Have we really? Have you given any thought to what happens here after you're gone?

Yes, quite a bit.

So it's pride more than anything else -- you "know" it, so it must be so. What you don't know is "ridiculous," so it cannot be.

You can call it what you want, NP. You presented a couple of thoughts. I answered them best I could.

Because you say so? Why should I believe you?

Because I'm your friend.

So, you've got nothing but your own incredulity to go on, do you? You refuse to believe it, and your refusal means what, exactly?

I've got all of life to go on. Too much meaning there.

I miss the good old days when Christians practiced humility -- sadly, the old schoolers are few and far between.

Perhaps you'd care to answer my other question: Is Osama bin Laden in/going to hell, and if so, why?

You'll see... I did answer it.

pgp_protector · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
God never sold Job out. God knew that Job was a perfect man and was up to the test. In the end Job came out on top with double blessings in his life, just as God had predicted.

How did Job's Family & Friends come out?

AV1611VET · Jun 10, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
I miss the good old days when Christians practiced humility -- sadly, the old schoolers are few and far between.

I think you'll find that the further back you go, the more fire-and-brimstone you hear.

Ever heard of Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God?

Let's see that on Snopes.

pgp_protector · Jun 10, 2011

AV1611VET said:
I think you'll find that the further back you go, the more fire-and-brimstone you hear.

Ever heard of Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God?

Let's see that on Snopes.

New Chick tract: "You Have a Date!" - Page 3 - snopes.com

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

Nathan Poe said:
Which means that the blood of the thousands of people on OBL's hands means exactly nothing. He could've just as easily been an average Joe (or average Ali) on the streets of Saudi Arabia, could've invented a cure for cancer, or could've rescued a bunch of kittens and orphans from a house fire -- he'd be in the exact same hell. And for what? For believing in a fairy tale different from your own.

Gotta tell you, I'm not seeing the appeal here.

The probability is that he is in hell but the possibility that when one repents and turns to God and asks for forgiveness of their sins and really means it, and they in turn, can be forgiven and accepted, is a wonderful thing. It allows and affords anyone to partake if they want to. It is not based on a reward system to get in but there are levels and rewards for things done in this life once there. I'm sorry that does not appeal to you. I find it very fair and humbling. I'm glad it is not based on a "I'm a good person" basis because you know, then there would be some who would complain about that. Everyone would have their own ideas about what is "good" enough and who deserves it.

No, I think God's way of ONE WAY with Jesus, or no way at all is wisdom and just.

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

pgp_protector said:
How did Job's Family & Friends come out?

We all reap what we sow in one way or another.

pgp_protector · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
We all reap what we sow in one way or another.

Everyone?

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

pgp_protector said:
Everyone?

Yes.

Jazer · Jun 10, 2011

selfinflikted said:
Still doesn't answer my original question though.

My wife says if we do our best God will do the rest. If your not willing to do anything, why should God do it all for you. As a parent what good would it be if I did everything for our children. They have to learn how to do things for themselves to grow up and be mature and responsable.

pgp_protector · Jun 10, 2011

Inan3 said:
We all reap what we sow in one way or another.

pgp_protector said:
Everyone?

Inan3 said:
Yes.

ETA: though the Bible doesn't agree with you.

John 9 1-3 said:
1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

According to the Bible some things God allows for His reason, not due to anything that a person or their family may of done.

Jazer · Jun 10, 2011

pgp_protector said:
How did Job's Family & Friends come out?

Job came our just fine, he assumed responsability for his actions and he did not try to blame everything on God. It is the enemy of God that trys to accuse God and blame him for the mess man makes out of his life.

Inan3 · Jun 10, 2011

Sometimes it's the society we live in that does the sowing for us.

pgp_protector · Jun 10, 2011

Jazer said:
Job came our just fine, he assumed responsability for his actions and he did not try to blame everything on God. It is the enemy of God that trys to accuse God and blame him for the mess man makes out of his life.

Wasn't asking about Job, just his dead friends & family.

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