Israel's future and Pat: Your view

Jesus Is Real · Feb 6, 2006

Hebrews 8
8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
KJV

more to come......

But why then is others remembering ~the house of Israel and with the house of Judah~ their sin still, if God is going to "REMEMBER NO MORE"?

Others are sitting as Judge through hardened hearts. It's a God Kind of Love issue that's why - the New Covenant hasn't hit home too much with some. We must all take the Prophets warnings that are in the Old Testament writtings which Paul seems to warn us also in the New Testament Writtings. Hey, guys it's still of GOD'S WORDS AND OF HIS HEART.

Be Whole all,
Connie

Jesus Is Real · Feb 9, 2006

Hebrews 8
8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For (1.) finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because (2.) they continued not in my covenant, and (3.) I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
KJV

Hey guys,

So what was Jesus telling us Since He IS GOD'S WORD, in HEBREWS 8?

1.) That He came to take away our sins
2.) To remember sins and iniquities no more.
3.) And that He would regard us as His People.

It wasn't that The Law was to be done away with - "The 10 Commandments" - which is Holy.
God's Law shows us what Sin is to be done away with.
God's Law is still a Holy Word, converting the soul.
We are no longer under the 'curse' of the law which is Sin, this is to be done away with in the New Covanent.
We no longer work the Law of God in our flesh nature of pride and strife, to gain God's regard -- in the flesh we HAVE NOTHING OF GOD'S REGARD AT ALL and we are NOT HIS SONS.

So, what was to be done away with is our sins, which caused us to disregarding God's Covenant. Sin is what needed to be done away with, for starters,....if not we will stay in Strife and Debates.

So, what does God do?
He says in a sence, "I'm going to make a brand new (if you will) Covenant where what I had said, which are MY WAYS just like ME -- for you to be like -- Laws and Judgments of Love -- I want you to be just like me - so NOW I'm going to write my Laws and my judgments in your mind and in your heart."

So what was to be taken away was:

1. Our Faults,...no more God would remember (though we still confess this to one another.)
God could find fault because HE IS GOD,....the new Covenant does not give us this Right to find Fault but to edify unto good works accepting ourselves and eachother and those by Faith who are to come in in God's Timing.
2. Our continuance of not walking in God's Nature,...(which showed in His Holy Law and in The Prophets that had summed up to a.) Love God with all you have b.) and to Love your neighbor as yourself.
3. God's disregarded of us.

THESE WERE TAKEN AWAY!!!

Was these promises only FOR ISRAEL or for THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN GOD'S NEW COVENANT WHICH PICTURES 'JESUS CHRIST.' JESUS CHRIST was GOD'S WHOLE PICTURE 'OF HIS GOODNESS' through HIS WORD AND HIS SPIRIT,...WHOM HE RECREATES IN US (JESUS) BY HIS SPIRIT - TO BE JUST LIKE HIM as we walk on With Him.

But now in the New Covenant - In Christ what does REMAIN?:
To the Jew first and then also to the greek:

1.) In Christ (God's New Covenant to walk out His Nature and Character) God no longer sees our faults - for He Is Our God now--He said it. But----->Receiving this, is receiving God's Love and loving Him above all. And the next Commandment is like the first. We then, are to no longer see our brethers faults to where we even slightly seem to curse them when we see it. If we see a fault with a close brother (or brother to be) go in love lest you be tempted to become as them in their pride and in their strife as well in not dealing with your own first.

2.) Walking in God's Nature and Character - Receiving this Nature (little by little on our hearts) is receiving God's Love and Loving Him above all. And the next is the same,...we then are to see by faith our brother or neighbor walking in God's Nature and Character -- NO STRIFE,...AT REST AND PEACE IN CHRIST.

3.) "Being" that we are now regarded by God as God's People - Receiving God's regard is receiving God's Love and Loving Him above all. And the next is the same,...we then are to see by faith our brother or neighbor as now regarded by God! LOVE HOPES ALL THINGS.

You'll see these 3 things ALL IN JESUS' WORDS which SHOWS WHO HIS FATHER IS AND GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT'S WORDS THROUGH PAUL which SHOWS WHO SPEAKES OF JESUS. GOD WANTS US TO HAVE 'ALL OF HIM' but we can't while working in pride and strife.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

WE IN CHRIST "DO" HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO HAVE GOD'S MERCY UNTO 'GOD'S OLIVE TREE'S' UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. And Jesus---> brought it to EVEN "YOUR OWN ENEMIES TO HAVE MERCY ON." Jesus used the words like, 'LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, DO GOOD TO THEM WHO HATE YOU,..." HAVE MERCY unto those who are to still come in. THIS FLOW--GOD'S WORD WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO HAVE IN US WHICH IS CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD!!!

IF GOD'S MERCIFUL - WE CAN TOO.

May we all here be Whole in Jesus towards Him and towards eachother;
And May all God's People be blessed,
In His Love
Connie

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

jsisrl said:
Hey Rut,

Do you know that God loves Israel although they were partly blinded that YOU MIGHT RECEIVE MERCY?

Read what I wrote just above this post.
There is no more fight with this issue of Israel, we are called to Love,...there is no more strife at hand where it comes to those in Christ Jesus. God will make 'good' all His Words and we can rest in His Love for Israel who God used to birth Christ from. They are blessed, though GOD HAS PARTLY BLINDED THEM - for YOUR SAKE IN BELIEVING GOD'S LOVE. See?

.....

Connie, (good posts, by the way), I have this uneasy feeling that in some ways (and I am certain it is unintentional), your personal attraction towards Israel is somehow unbalanced.

I clearly understand that the Judaic Israel is our spiritual "ally", due to Father's love towards the Patriarchs.
Yet they are also the enemies of the gospel, hence Christ's enemies.

RO 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, ...

The issue is complex and is beyond my judgement at this time.

But then some people are presenting some issues concerning the Law of the OT, as if it pertains in some sense to the believers.
And then, some follow with a suggestion that if we follow the 10 Commandments, we should not dismiss the rest of the Law.

But the reason we follow the 9 out of 10 Commandments is not because they are in the OT, but because they are sprinkled throughout the NT. And the Sabbath is optional in the NT.
........
In the Bible, Christians are told not to be arrogant in their salvation.
And the Judaics are told to be repentant in their "exile".

The reports that I hear from the missionaries in Israel are disturbing as far as the behavior of the Judaics is against the believers (Jewish and Gentile) is concerned.

So, what am I suggesting?
I am not sure.

But what I am sure of is that there should not be a head-over-heels attitude in any one direction.

If one is pro-Israel - he should also strongly critisize Israel for not being repentant.

If one is against Israel - he should also be careful not to be arrogant and not to criticise in broad strokes.

Otherwise, the nationalistic influences will overtake either view.

Thanks,
Ed

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

.
OK FAIR ENOUGH,.......

Edial said:
Connie, (good posts, by the way), I have this uneasy feeling that in some ways (and I am certain it is unintentional), your personal attraction towards Israel is somehow unbalanced.

I clearly understand that the Judaic Israel is our spiritual "ally", due to Father's love towards the Patriarchs.
Yet they are also the enemies of the gospel, hence Christ's enemies.

RO 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, ...

The issue is complex and is beyond my judgement at this time. That is why we need God's Judgment on this matter, ever since God saved (this nation - me) God from the Beginning has given me His Understanding on this issue. I die for Him on this issue that His Light might show out.

But then some people are presenting some issues concerning the Law of the OT, as if it pertains in some sense to the believers.
And then, some follow with a suggestion that if we follow the 10 Commandments, we should not dismiss the rest of the Law.

But the reason we follow the 9 out of 10 Commandments is not because they are in the OT, but because they are sprinkled throughout the NT. And the Sabbath is optional in the NT.
........
In the Bible, Christians are told not to be arrogant in their salvation.
And the Judaics are told to be repentant in their "exile".

The reports that I hear from the missionaries in Israel are disturbing as far as the behavior of the Judaics is against the believers (Jewish and Gentile) is concerned. SHOULD I SOMEHOW BREAK GOD'S WORD THEN,...KNOWING THAT THEIR BLINDNESS WAS DUE TO MY OWN AND YOUR OWN MERCY? In other words,...should my Faith in God fail to think that God won't come to them for some to finally believe? In other words, should my Love fail for even my enemies. In other words, Jesus said to Love your enemies etc. So the Spirit of the word 'are enemies on your account' is a Holy Word not a license to disobey Jesus who said, "Love your enemies, do go to them,...."

So, what am I suggesting?
I am not sure. LOL........fair enough.......

But what I am sure of is that there should not be a head-over-heels attitude in any one direction.
I suppose you not knowing me,.....which is ok I don't really know you but only in The Spirit we know eachother,....but that said I am for God and His Sayings. I am for The Captiain of the Host of God. And He has said much on the good of everyone who is and who will be one with God's Natural Olive Tree - whose root has both of us, you know. Lest we fail to realise this point. We can not speak against God's Tree, though some branches were cut off,.....God knows how to graft them in again as they come to believe in Jesus. No one pulled your arm to be Saved,.....let theirs go and Trust In God. So, God is the one we keep our view on and He has said much about His Natural Olive Tree. I can but speak what He has already instructed us to know - which had been a Mystery until God had Paul speak it. <-------updated for clarity

If one is pro-Israel - he should also strongly critisize Israel for not being repentant.
NOPE. JESUS TOLD THEM THE TRUTH,...BUT IT'S NOT THE END OF THE STORY, NOW IS IT?

If one is against Israel - he should also be careful not to be arrogant and not to criticise in broad strokes. I NEVER HAVE. I do know that God allows the terror in,....due to sin and for also to Make His Power and Might known to THE WHOLE WORLD IN TIME,...but if the TERROR-Army that God uses to crush some and to kill some, if they GET proud in their heart for their blows and boasting of it---him God will destroy. If you have read your Bible as well,...you know this too.

Otherwise, the nationalistic influences will overtake either view.
IT WILL ALL COME ABOUT AS GOD HAS ALREADY SAID FROM THE BEGINNING.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,

'being repentant'

When Moses broke God's Words, he was not allowed into the Promised Land. Don't ever break The Pattern, not even Spiritually.

But ok,.........what was the role of the high-priest, as Jesus was?
In other words, what did God instruct Moses to do when anyone sinned or even when they sinned ignorantly? What was God showing them to do - which always means a Spiritual meaning? Which lives in your Today if Christ is in you.
Read in Leviticus - ask God to show you the Spiritual meaning. Then get back with me.

If Jesus walked the Law Perfectly and fulfilled much in it which Law showed Jesus-Himself then how are we to walk as well being now in The High-Priest?

Be Whole in Christ,
Connie

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

jsisrl said:
Ed,

'being repentant'

When Moses broke God's Words, he was not allowed into the Promised Land. Don't ever break The Pattern, not even Spiritually.

Connie? Are you sure you do not want to re-state this?

jsisrl said:
So, what was the role of the high-priest, as Jesus was?
In other words, what did God instruct Moses to do when anyone sinned or even when they sinned ignorantly? What was God showing them to do - which always means a Spiritual meaning?
Read in Leviticus.
If Jesus walked the Law Perfectly, which showed Himself then how are we to walk as well being now in The High-Priest?

Be Whole in Christ,
Connie

Are you saying we are to walk the Law perfectly?
Do you mean 613 Laws and Regulations or something else?

Thanks,
Ed

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

Edial said:
Connie? Are you sure you do not want to re-state this?
If you don't understand what I am saying I might put it in picture form for you.
But I will say this to you, our role is not to criticise nor be fault-finders. Jesus told them they were in sin in a Pure and Holy Manner and then He died for them,....we must do the same to them that they might have life through our mercy.

Are you saying we are to walk the Law perfectly?
The Law is Spiritual I'm sold under sin so that I of my own strength can not Love God nor anyone else without His Cleansing, without going to Him for washing. So, go back and look at the word 'perfectly' again who did I attribute this word too, first? But in Christ, Jesus said, 'Be Ye Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect.' Paul said, "Let us go on into Perfection - who IS JESUS CHRIST." This is a Holy Word for those who see and hear not for those who have no understanding,....not saying you don't....but we are admonished that if we don't lack wisdom to Ask God and He will give His Wisdom to us--freely without respector of persons.

Do you mean 613 Laws and Regulations or something else?

Thanks,
Ed

Just consider what is being said don't throw more things in it.
Just hear what is being said. I am talking about the high-priest right now,...take it slow.

WHAT WAS THE ROLE OF THE PRIEST?

Tishri1 · Feb 10, 2006

Hebrews 8:1 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest,...

The main point is the priesthood (Chapters 1-7 and then on into 8 and above).. look at all those italisized words in Hebrews and if they alter the main point they shouldn't be there, throw them out (they were added by the translater who was not thinking Hebraically) and just read the text with out them....then the context comes shining thru which is simply the priesthood...

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

here is a great example the word "covenant" is italisized and that means it doesn't belong there so throw it out and read it again...in context...

Hebrews 8:1-9 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said : we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary, and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary that this also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned 'God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "See," He says, "that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain." ' 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will effect a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; 9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers On the day when I took them by the hand To lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they did not continue in My covenant, And I did not care for them, says the Lord....

If you look at what was "faulty" you will see it was the people (specifically the priests). When God exhorted the people He had his finger on those priests...They were the instigators of all the pagan worship that the people wanted to do (See Aaron for example) and then a close 2nd would be the King because he would have been at fault for not ruling the People as God had told him to.

.Yeshua replaced both the Priesthood and the King's position which was expected by all (thru prophecy ) that the Messiah would do.....BUT if you read it IN CONTEXT you really don't see a "Faulty Covenant" (How could God create a Faulty Covenant) only Faulty People, because well people are faulty after all...So a better covenant was brought about not because the first COVENANT was FAULTY but because the first PRIESTHOOD was FAULTY.....that is a huge difference when it comes to our attitude towards God and his Word

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

First Priesthood

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

.

Bless you!

Well good point,.......like people like priests,....though God was talking about all of Israel - so that all could come freely and confess their sins carrying their sacrifices with them.

Be Whole,
Connie

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

.
This is our first correspondence and I get this?

But ok,.........what was the role of the high-priest, as Jesus was?
In other words, what did God instruct Moses to do when anyone sinned or even when they sinned ignorantly? What was God showing them to do - which always means a Spiritual meaning? Which lives in your Today if Christ is in you.
Read in Leviticus - ask God to show you the Spiritual meaning. Then get back with me.

If you don't understand what I am saying I might put it in picture form for you.

Connie.
I find your style arrogant and haughty.

You just answered a whole bunch of my questions concerning this thread.

KEPLER was right once again.

(This son of a gun, and I argue with him at other forums all the time).

Thanks for clarification,

Ed

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

Edial said:
.
This is our first correspondence and I get this?

But ok,.........what was the role of the high-priest, as Jesus was?
In other words, what did God instruct Moses to do when anyone sinned or even when they sinned ignorantly? What was God showing them to do - which always means a Spiritual meaning? Which lives in your Today if Christ is in you.
Read in Leviticus - ask God to show you the Spiritual meaning. Then get back with me.

If you don't understand what I am saying I might put it in picture form for you.

Connie.
I find your style arrogant and haughty.

You just answered a whole bunch of my questions concerning this thread.

KEPLER was right once again.

(This son of a gun, and I argue with him at other forums all the time).

Thanks for clarification,

Ed

Ed,

When Moses broke the Pattern He was not allowed to go in the Promised Land.
This is God's Testimony to those who will see and hear.
I personally fear and quack more and more.

I am just beginning to be broken in God's Revelation of this very thing. Though each man must wait to see,....I know this. For what you see I can't even image I'm sure. But if I have been given to see, why are you in rage so quickly?

So Ed, when God had Moses show picture forms for the people, this was not Moses being haughty unto the people, it was God's Kindness unto them.

But you see Ed,...Moses broke the Pattern.
He criticised the people and then he broken the pattern of how we are to Pray to Jesus. It's a very serious matter,....once we have the Fear of The Lord.

So,...you were not being talked down too. I would be sorry if I had been talking down to you. At least, none that I can detect,...certainly it would be none to detect since all I'm doing is pointing to God's Word. If God's Word - His Pattern offends you then,... anyway~~~ You were not being talked down too. I'm sorry if you thought this. I have no hammer in my hands here.

But please refrain from breaking the pattern,....this is what causes others not want to have anything to do with God. What we think to be merely "Christ persecution" is not, but rather it's a rightful hiss they are giving out. They hiss you Ed, because you don't walk in Kindness toward others - but you should. (Why are you hurt by a blow that has not come my way? But who has hurts you friend to feel pain? )

We should stoop, when it's needed.

Oh,.....but if you and KELPER have been brought together in Love then God has worked His Work without hands - I rejoice with you for Love's Sake. But if God's Pattern is being broken then flee and draw back unto God. But if you don't know the Pattern how shall any say "Amen?" But when you repent God sits on a thrown of Grace, Ed. God's Word is so Perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 19:7

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
KJV

Click to expand...

Back to the question I had asked you.
Let's try this again but in another post, lets see God's Picture together in His Love.

Be Whole in God's Love,
Connie

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

.
Ed,

Can we start over?

So, the High-Priests were to what?

1.) Point the finger and Criticise when their brethren sinned?
The Law already tells them what Sin is and it was there as a condemner when they
broke God's Law until they brought their sacrifice.

So the High-Priest was to what?----> To Love your enemy and interceed - that was their role in the Tabernacle.
But Israel is the beloved to Abraham, and so should be to you.
If they are then you shall do well and wellness will come to you.
Paul said he wish he was cursed from Christ if it would aid Israel to be drawn back in.
He preached the Gospel,....but He loved them - because Jesus said Love your enemies.

2.) Or Was He to interceed for the sins of the people and his own with the blood,
carrying their beast of burdens to the altar?

So what is our role being In Christ?
Which we have been Empowered to do PERFECTLY IN CHRIST.

And who IS THAT ALTER - who was that Altar a Picture of?

Now if you believe me to have sinned against you, having hit you over the head here,.....

DID YOU?

1.) Pray for me with a pure heart in Love for me and for God?
2.) Did you come to me carrying my burdens in Love, since I seem (to you) to be hurtful towards others?

Or was that just a lie?,....hey I will hear your faults. Who am I to point the finger? So, there's only one thing that will be crushed through here when you confess, if you were just lying to me about you thinking that I had come in to do you pain and injury, so the only crushing through will always be the 'head' of the beast by the feet of Jesus' Sacrifice once brought in at the door. (God's Pattern.)

So, I also want to know your hurts, Ed?
I'll help you take your land in fighting the enemy, if you then after ward will help me take my land. (yeah,....another pattern!)

If we are not walking in GOD'S PATTERN,........then WE ARE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE BREAKING THE PATTERN OF GOD EACH AND EVERY DAY,....and I fear and quack.

May we all be made Whole towards God and eachother,
Connie

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

jsisrl said:
Ed,

When Moses broke the Pattern He was not allowed to go in the Promised Land.
This is God's Testimony to those who will see and hear.
I personally fear and quack more and more.

I am just beginning to be broken in God's Revelation of this very thing. Though each man must wait to see,....I know this. For what you see I can't even image I'm sure. But if I have been given to see, why are you in rage so quickly?

No rage. I'm laughing.

jsisrl said:
So Ed, when God had Moses show picture forms for the people, this was not Moses being haughty unto the people, it was God's Kindness unto them.

But you see Ed,...Moses broke the Pattern.
He criticised the people and then he broken the pattern of how we are to Pray to Jesus. It's a very serious matter,....once we have the Fear of The Lord.

There is a difference between fearing the Lord and rubuttal to an attemp of spiritual intimidation.

jsisrl said:

So,...you were not being talked down too. I would be sorry if I had been talking down to you. At least, none that I can detect,...certainly it would be none to detect since all I'm doing is pointing to God's Word. If God's Word - His Pattern offends you then,... anyway~~~ You were not being talked down too. I'm sorry if you thought this. I have no hammer in my hands here.

Click to expand...

God's word does not offend me.
What offends me is when others try indimidating any objection by quoting God's word.

jsisrl said:

But please refrain from breaking the pattern,....this is what causes others not want to have anything to do with God. What we think to be merely "Christ persecution" is not, but rather it's a rightful hiss they are giving out. They hiss you Ed, because you don't walk in Kindness toward others - but you should.

Click to expand...

Rightful hiss?
Connie if you think that you were given a certain gift that you are trying to implement, I would suggest to re-evaluate this with some honest friends whose opinions you trust.

jsisrl said:

(Why are you hurt by a blow that has not come my way? But who has hurts you friend to feel pain? )

Click to expand...

jsisrl said:

We should stoop, when it's needed.

Click to expand...

I can assure you.
It was not pain and it was not a hurt.
It was definitely a surprise. But my inner questions got answered.

jsisrl said:

Oh,.....but if you and KELPER have been brought together in Love then God has worked His Work without hands - I rejoice with you for Love's Sake. But if God's Pattern is being broken then flee and draw back unto God. But if you don't know the Pattern how shall any say "Amen?" But when you repent God sits on a thrown of Grace, Ed. God's Word is so Perfect, converting the soul.

Click to expand...

Oh, concerning KEPLER
The Lord does work in mysterious ways. No question about that.

jsisrl said:

Back to the question I had asked you.
Let's try this again but in another post, lets see God's Picture together in His Love.

Be Whole in God's Love,
Connie

Click to expand...

Ok.

Ed

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

Edial said:
No rage. I'm laughing.

[/B]

There is a difference between fearing the Lord and rubuttal to an attemp of spiritual intimidation.

[/COLOR]God's word does not offend me.
What offends me is when others try indimidating any objection by quoting God's word.

[/COLOR]
Rightful hiss?
Connie if you think that you were given a certain gift that you are trying to implement, I would suggest to re-evaluate this with some honest friends whose opinions you trust.

I can assure you.
It was not pain and it was not a hurt.
It was definitely a surprise. But my inner questions got answered.

Oh, concerning KEPLER
The Lord does work in mysterious ways. No question about that.

Ok.

Ed

Ed,

I could say the same things to you to bounce your gift off of friends you can trust, as a jab with a worldly-kindness-of-sarcasm attached to it, but THIS IS NOT THE PATTERN EITHER, SIR.

MOSES LOST THE PROMISED LAND - HE SHOWED NOT GOD'S PATTERN.

Who are you laughting at?

You are working in your gift,.......why is it that I don't accuse you?

And what were you surprised about my question?

How others are the fool, but not you? Well Satan will confirm inner feelings all the time, friend.
Check your Love level, when it comes to me. And others at that.

What Object was I bringing in as intimidation or Idolatry?

I asked you what the Role of the High Priest was is that showing Idolatry (an offense) to you?

**stopping just for Ed**

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

.
MOSES BROKE THE PATTERN:

But where you are sincere,.....thank you Ed, I am highly esteemed by my family and friends and my church thank you. I am still in (this cave) if you will though, I want no publicity. So I am in this cave (not in the spot light) until I am to die for what I have believed. Then I will be tested as Moses was as you will too Sir.

Moses didn't die for what He believed - As Jesus said 'Carry your cross and follow Me.' But Moses didn't believe God, I am admonished to learn from his mistakes and all the examples - I am to eat GOD'S WHOLE FLESH. How about you? God's Word is not to any private interpretation,...meaning it's for the Whole Olive Tree. The blood has been applied.

Num 20:7-12
7 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. <-------TRUE PATTERN SO FAR

10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? <------WRONG PATTERN - NO PROMISED LAND FOR MOSES.

11 And Moses lifted up his hand, <------WRONG PATTERN - NO PROMISED LAND FOR MOSES AND AARON.

and with his rod he smote the rock twice: <------WRONG PATTERN - NO PROMISED LAND FOR MOSES.

and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and
their beasts also. <--------GOD'S MERCY AND GRACE INSPITE OF MOSES DISOBEDIENCE. GOD STILL WANTED TO GIVE THE PEOPLE WATER FROM THE ROCK. BUT NO PROMISED LAND FOR MOSES OR FOR AARON. THEY ARE OUR EXAMPLES FOR TODAY, LEST WE BE WISE IN OUR CONCEITS TOO.

PUNISHMENT - CONSEQUENCES:

12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, <--------MOSES BROUGHT A PATTER OF UNBELIEF GOD SAID.

to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, <--------MOSES DID NOT SHOW GOD AS SET APART --- MOSES DID NOT SHOW THAT GOD WAS HOLY AND GOOD IN HEARING OUR PRAYERS TO ANSWER THEM.

therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. <---------MOSES JUST LOST THE PROMISED LAND OF BRINGING THE CONGRAGATION IN BECAUSE HE SHOWED SHOWED THEM 1.) 'UNBELIEF' AND 2.) 'HE SHOWED THAT GOD WASN'T HOLY AND GOOD TO HEAR US SHEEP.' THE BROKE GOD'S WORD TO THE PEOPLE.
KJV

Anyone who does NOT walk these patterns we are not to follow.
Paul only said, follow me as I follow Christ. Good word, Paul.
He taugh us God's Word and what it means Spiritually for our hearts and lives.
He remembered, the few as it were Canaanite nations who opposed him, who had no inheritance
with God understanding them to be as Jesus called Judas 'a devil.' But for the most part He clearly
showed THE PATTERN OF GOD'S WAYS. I esteem my self to do so as well as you, Ed.

Connie must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
Ed must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
Trishri1 must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
OnTheWay must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
GraceInHim must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
KEPLER must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
visionary must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
Rut must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
Scholar in training must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.
tylerjms7 must not break, in Christ, GOD'S PATTERN.

WE ARE ALL ADMONISHED IN SCRIPTURE TO NOT BREAK GOD'S PATTERN.
ALTHOUGH, TO EACH IN HIS TIME.

Connie

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

ed said:
I clearly understand that the Judaic Israel is our spiritual "ally", due to Father's love towards the Patriarchs.
Yet they are also the enemies of the gospel, hence Christ's enemies.

Ed,

It is not the end of the story though.

The Gospel truely does tell me who my enemies are but what does this
same Gospel tell me to do with my enemies? IT SAYS TO LOVE THEM.......if you can't love them
then I am not the one who needs to get back in balance, Sir.

If all you can see is their unrepentant heart,.....then BE A PRIEST TO THEM, AS Revelation calls you into through Christ:

1.) Interceed for them - with your whole life - love them as yourself. (This takes a death to self)

2.) Carry their burden - with your whole life - love them as yourself. (This takes a death to self)

IF YOU PERSONALLY KNOW A JEW,...REBUKE THEM IN LOVE, (by your own death to your own flesh nature which is the same as Satan), AND THEN BE A PRIEST.
DON'T BREAK THE PATTERN!!!

This is what is being said to you.

I by my own effections could easily be on the side of the Arabs.
My son has some arabian blood in him. And being born again and being A JEW due to Jesus - from the line of Judah, I can be whole heartedly and yes still imbalanced of being whole HEARTED FOR ISRAEL OVER THERE,...but God did a nice Way unto me. Guess what,.......I am to have no respector of persons here. So I am for God and what He has ALREADY SAID.

I don't curse in my heart the arabs, when Israel gets bombed.
And I don't rejoice in my heart when Israel, kills their enemies through their Army.

NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!!!

I KNOW WHAT GOD HATH SAID IN HIS WORD.
AND I STAY THERE.
AND SAY WHAT HE HAS ALREADY SAID.

Be Made Whole in Jesus,
Connie

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

jsisrl said:
.
Ed,

Can we start over?

Sure.

jsisrl said:
.So, the High-Priests were to what?

jsisrl said:
1.) Point the finger and Criticise when their brethren sinned?
The Law already tells them what Sin is and it was there as a condemner when they
broke God's Law until they brought their sacrifice.

So the High-Priest was to what?----> To Love your enemy and interceed - that was their role in the Tabernacle.
But Israel is the beloved to Abraham, and so should be to you.
If they are then you shall do well and wellness will come to you.
Paul said he wish he was cursed from Christ if it would aid Israel to be drawn back in.
He preached the Gospel,....but He loved them - because Jesus said Love your enemies.

2.) Or Was He to interceed for the sins of the people and his own with the blood,
carrying their beast of burdens to the altar?

It is 2.

jsisrl said:
.

jsisrl said:
So what is our role being In Christ?

jsisrl said:
Which we have been Empowered to do PERFECTLY IN CHRIST.

I hope you are not saying "to intercede" for each other.

jsisrl said:
.

jsisrl said:
Now if you believe me to have sinned against you, having hit you over the head here,......

In order for you to sin against me I have to take an offense.
I stopped you before it develops in something worse.

jsisrl said:

.

Click to expand...

jsisrl said:

DID YOU?

Click to expand...

jsisrl said:
1.) Pray for me with a pure heart in Love for me and for God?
2.) Did you come to me carrying my burdens in Love, since I seem (to you) to be hurtful towards others? .

Oh, I do think that you are improperly applying the Scriptures to suppress the views of others.

jsisrl said:

Or was that just a lie?,....hey I will hear your faults. Who am I to point the finger? So, there's only one thing that will be crushed through here when you confess, if you were just lying to me about you thinking that I had come in to do you pain and injury, so the only crushing through will always be the 'head' of the beast by the feet of Jesus' Sacrifice once brought in at the door. (God's Pattern.)

Click to expand...

Connie, I can assure you that you did not inflict any pain on me.
What you said was painless to me.
What you are saying to others - their business.

So, no lies, no pain.

Also, your offer for me to confess can add another definition to my understanding of what is going on here.

jsisrl said:
So, I also want to know your hurts, Ed?
I'll help you take your land in fighting the enemy, if you then after ward will help me take my land. (yeah,....another pattern!)

Connie, if you are presenting the analogy of what is going on, I can assure you that I am not interested in fighting, arguing nor debating.

So, no analogy of occupying land is needed.

jsisrl said:

If we are not walking in GOD'S PATTERN,........then WE ARE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE BREAKING THE PATTERN OF GOD EACH AND EVERY DAY,....and I fear and quack.

Click to expand...

jsisrl said:
May we all be made Whole towards God and eachother,
Connie

One must be careful in distinguishing God's pattern from our own understanding of it.

Thanks,
Ed

Edial · Feb 10, 2006

jsisrl said:
Ed,

It is not the end of the story though.

The Gospel truely does tell me who my enemies are but what does this
same Gospel tell me to do with my enemies? IT SAYS TO LOVE THEM.......if you can't love them
then I am not the one who needs to get back in balance, Sir.

If all you can see if their unrepentant heart,.....then BE A PRIEST TO THEM, AS Revelation calls you into through Christ.
1.) Interceed for them - with your whole life - love them as yourself
2.) Carry their burden - with your whole life - love them as yourself

This is what is being said to you.

I by my own effections could easily be on the side of the Arabs.
My son has some arabian blood in him. And being born again and being A JEW due to Jesus - from the line of Judah, I can be whole heartedly but yes imbalanced of being whole HEARTED FOR ISRAEL OVER THERE.

But God did a nice Way unto me.
Guess what,.......I am to have no respector of persons here.
I am for God.
And what His has ALREADY SAID.

I don't curse in my heart the arabls, when Israel gets bombed.
I don't rejoice in my heart when Israel, kills their enemies through their Army.

I KNOW WHAT GOD HATH SAID IN HIS WORD.
AND I STAY THERE.
AND SAY WHAT HE HAS ALREADY SAID.

Be Made Whole in Jesus,
Connie

Now, this is a good post.

Of course our goal is to love our enemies.

I discussed that in one of my posts some levels back.

Thanks,
Ed

KEPLER · Feb 10, 2006

Tishri1 said:
Hebrews 8:1 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest,...

The main point is the priesthood (Chapters 1-7 and then on into 8 and above).. look at all those italisized words in Hebrews and if they alter the main point they shouldn't be there, throw them out (they were added by the translater who was not thinking Hebraically) and just read the text with out them....then the context comes shining thru which is simply the priesthood...

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

here is a great example the word "covenant" is italisized and that means it doesn't belong there so throw it out and read it again...in context...

Hebrews 8:1-9 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said : we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary, and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary that this also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned 'God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "See," He says, "that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain." ' 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will effect a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; 9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers On the day when I took them by the hand To lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they did not continue in My covenant, And I did not care for them, says the Lord....

If you look at what was "faulty" you will see it was the people (specifically the priests). When God exhorted the people He had his finger on those priests...They were the instigators of all the pagan worship that the people wanted to do (See Aaron for example) and then a close 2nd would be the King because he would have been at fault for not ruling the People as God had told him to.

.Yeshua replaced both the Priesthood and the King's position which was expected by all (thru prophecy ) that the Messiah would do.....BUT if you read it IN CONTEXT you really don't see a "Faulty Covenant" (How could God create a Faulty Covenant) only Faulty People, because well people are faulty after all...So a better covenant was brought about not because the first COVENANT was FAULTY but because the first PRIESTHOOD was FAULTY.....that is a huge difference when it comes to our attitude towards God and his Word

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

First Priesthood

Wow, you truly don't know the first thing about grammar, do you?

I have never seen a posting so astoundingly and completely uninformed and incorrect in its conlcusions.

Please, tell me what a numerical referent is?

Well, never mind, because clearly you don't know.

If someone make s a list of similar things (let's say "cars" just to make it easy), and they want to make a distinction between the two, the use a numerical referent.

For example:

We have two cars, one is made by the Chevrolet, the next is made by Ford.

The first is red, the second is blue.

BECAUsE the SUBJECT of the first sentence is "cars", then the numerical referents ("first" and "second") in the subsequent sentence REFER to the SUBJECTS of the previous sentence.

Therefore, it is JUST AS CORRECT to say: "The first car is red, the second car is blue."

So, your assertion that "covenant" does not "belong" in verse 7 is BLATANTLY WRONG and PATENTLY ABSURD. The "first" in verse 7 POINTS to the subject of the previous sentence which was "COVENANT".

GET IT??!!

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

Edial said:
Sure.

It is 2.

I hope you are not saying "to intercede" for each other.

In order for you to sin against me I have to take an offense.
I stopped you before it develops in something worse.

Oh, I do think that you are improperly applying the Scriptures to suppress the views of others.

Connie, I can assure you that you did not inflict any pain on me.
What you said was painless to me.
What you are saying to others - their business.

So, no lies, no pain.

Also, your offer for me to confess can add another definition to my understanding of what is going on here.

Connie, if you are presenting the analogy of what is going on, I can assure you that I am not interested in fighting, arguing nor debating.

So, no analogy of occupying land is needed.

One must be careful in distinguishing God's pattern from our own understanding of it.

Thanks,
Ed

Ok.....your not offended. That done.

The High-Priest was to interceed for the sins of their own and the peoples, (YOU HAD AGREED TO #2.) meaning they dealt with the sins - intercession - NOT LIKE THE CATHOLICS DO (no offense Catholics but I not presuaded to those OTHER patterns). But interceeding --- this was although the High-Priests role. And if you can't hear this, you most suredly can't hear this then,........you must die for the sins of Israel as Christ left you an example. You must die for them, so that your mercy might give them Life - and that Life from the Dead. Who's your enemy? Then die for them to Love them ARIGHT.

So, I adjour you,....if you see Israel sinning be what you are called to BE: A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS UNTO GOD.

What was the Role of the High Priest?
Well, what is Jesus still ever wanting to do in HEAVEN RIGHT NOW for us and others? ----Interceeding ---- Praying for us -----to talk to God not to strick Him nor others.

See?

Jesus Is Real · Feb 10, 2006

Quote

Originally Posted by: Tishri1

Hebrews 8:1 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest,...

The main point is the priesthood (Chapters 1-7 and then on into 8 and above).. look at all those italisized words in Hebrews and if they alter the main point they shouldn't be there, throw them out (they were added by the translater who was not thinking Hebraically) and just read the text with out them....then the context comes shining thru which is simply the priesthood...

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

here is a great example the word "covenant" is italisized and that means it doesn't belong there so throw it out and read it again...in context...

Hebrews 8:1-9 NAS Hebrews 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said : we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary, and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary that this also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned 'God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "See," He says, "that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain." ' 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, When I will effect a new covenant With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; 9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers On the day when I took them by the hand To lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they did not continue in My covenant, And I did not care for them, says the Lord....

If you look at what was "faulty" you will see it was the people (specifically the priests). When God exhorted the people He had his finger on those priests...They were the instigators of all the pagan worship that the people wanted to do (See Aaron for example) and then a close 2nd would be the King because he would have been at fault for not ruling the People as God had told him to.

.Yeshua replaced both the Priesthood and the King's position which was expected by all (thru prophecy ) that the Messiah would do.....BUT if you read it IN CONTEXT you really don't see a "Faulty Covenant" (How could God create a Faulty Covenant) only Faulty People, because well people are faulty after all...So a better covenant was brought about not because the first COVENANT was FAULTY but because the first PRIESTHOOD was FAULTY.....that is a huge difference when it comes to our attitude towards God and his Word

Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

First Priesthood

KEPLER said:
Wow, you truly don't know the first thing about grammar, do you?

I have never seen a posting so astoundingly and completely uninformed and incorrect in its conlcusions.

Please, tell me what a numerical referent is?

Well, never mind, because clearly you don't know.

If someone make s a list of similar things (let's say "cars" just to make it easy), and they want to make a distinction between the two, the use a numerical referent.

For example:

We have two cars, one is made by the Chevrolet, the next is made by Ford.

The first is red, the second is blue.

BECAUsE the SUBJECT of the first sentence is "cars", then the numerical referents ("first" and "second") in the subsequent sentence REFER to the SUBJECTS of the previous sentence.

Therefore, it is JUST AS CORRECT to say: "The first car is red, the second car is blue."

So, your assertion that "covenant" does not "belong" in verse 7 is BLATANTLY WRONG and PATENTLY ABSURD. The "first" in verse 7 POINTS to the subject of the previous sentence which was "COVENANT".

GET IT??!!

Pattern broke.

Sigh,.......Father?

You know KEPLER,.......Moses broke the Patter of God's Ways and He was not premitted into the Promised Land.

We all must take this admonition.
I know I do, with much Fear of God.

Be Made Whole in Christ,
Connie

Israel's future and Pat: Your view

On Israel(in alphabetical order):

I don't know.

Israel should have it's land back.

Peace in the Middle East.

Something else.

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