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Isn't time a measurement of motion?

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sjastro

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You believe in an ether theory that has been debunked since the early 20th century by every interferometer test performed over 100 years with the exception of Miller’s test in the 1920s where the experiment was found to be flawed.
What is laughable are your constant references to SR to “refute” arguments, yet SR postulates that no ether or medium is required for the propagation of light.
Frankly I have lost count of the number of times you have put your foot in your mouth with the contradictions.

I’m calling your bluff on being able to explain to me how Doppler shift in a medium relates to “energy transfer if coming towards an object or away from an object.”
Since sound waves do require air as a medium, explain the Doppler shift of a sound wave as an energy transfer with air using physics and maths.
I expect this to end up like all your other grandiose claims, where you chicken out and look plain silly.



You are making up rubbish on a subject matter that is way beyond your comprehension.
You can translate time forwards or backwards if you like, if the Lagrangian remains constant, energy is conserved.
I might as well be talking in a foreign language………………..



I’ll ignore the usual Gish Gallop nonsense, false attribution fallacies and straight out lying and note with your continuous references to Doppler shift and mediums, you had better explain how the Doppler shift of a sound wave is an energy transfer with air.



Here in a nutshell is why you are completely out of your depth as is your selection of “supportive” links which always turn out to being embarrassingly anything but supportive.
How is the link of a satellite orbit around the Earth in any way relevant with the Earth’s tangential acceleration in space which is the issue here?
Since the physics of satellite orbits and the Earth orbit around the Sun are the same, the link refers to centripedal acceleration which acts radially towards the central mass of the orbit.
Tangential acceleration is perpendicular to the centripedal acceleration.
Even then you should be able to understand the Earth is moving in space tangentially to the orbit, not in the direction of the centripetal or gravitational force otherwise we would literally be toast.
Equally absurd is confusing the acceleration of an object in the Earth’s gravitational field with the tangential acceleration of the Earth in space.

On top of your inability to understand that velocity and acceleration are different, the use of links and references where you clearly have zero comprehension in terms of their relevance in defending your pet theory, while at the same time giving me a lecture on your superior understanding of physics is classic D-K behaviour and pure comedy.

Nothing has changed; the accelerometer reads zero as the tangential acceleration is zero or too small to detect while your pet theory is further confirmed to be complete nonsense.



The term is “losing” not “loosing”.
You can’t even get your insults right without it blowing up in your face.

Yah, it's usually the ones that start it that end up not being able to take the return heat.....

But I forgive you and glad you learned something at least!!!!
Since you are so aggrieved with what was a moderator decision take it up with them.

Let me remind you of your assignment, explain using physics and maths how a Doppler shifted sound wave is the result of exchanging energy with air.
Don’t bother wasting my time with further nonsense on justifying your pet theory, Gish Gallop nonsense and personal attacks, which won’t be responded to, just answer the question.
 
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SelfSim

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... I’ve no problem discussing the metaphysical as long as we all understand we are discussing the metaphysical and nothing that could be construed as science.....
One has to understand the box (the science) before one can think outside of it (or beyond it).
Your demonstrations of that remain totally unconvincing.
It seems the effects of totalitarianism, in its aim of constraining thinking, also impair perceptions of reality.
Vigilance, listening and 'trying on' what others have to say, are key.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Says the guy that only preaches what those in the box tell him to think....

You are not convincing at all, due to the fact that your views are totalitarian and anyone not in line with them, even if they are the ones thinking out of the box, are always wrong. Just because it is not what you believe....

I could understand if you had actual laboratory evidence, but to claim never before tested physics that only happen outside of our fishbowl, while actual tested physics observed in our fishbowl fit even better..... making our fishbowl the entire universe instead of just a tiny portion thereof as you and Dad would have it....

The difference is when I think outside the box, i still keep in mind the laws of physics discovered in the box, and simply apply them outside, not conjure up just enough magical Fairie Dust to make my math work out...

What is really surprising is you all keep claiming to believe in Relativity and then throw it in the trash can. Knowing it is 99.8% correct right here in the solar system without any Fairie Dust at all - applied to non-ionized matter. but the second you go outside the solar system and attempt to apply it to a universe 99.9% plasma, suddenly it doesn't work anymore. But instead of using the physics for the correct state of matter, you try to sledgehammer it to work anyways, the result you end up needing 95% unknown, untestable Fairie Dust added to make it fit a semblance of reality.

And despite having to correct an already 99.8% correct theory by another 95%, you still claim to believe in the theory you just trashed by not accepting what it is telling you.....
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Too bad we did not observe any such things in Noah's day.
Hey Dad, notice they are now arguing with you, by claiming never before seen physics in any laboratory operates outside of our fishbowl which they have defined as our galactic cluster..... outside of that physics operates completely different than it does here, but weren't they just arguing the same physics apply everywhere when you tried to argue that????
 
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dad

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I didn't see much of an argument. Only blind faith and fishbowl projections with a godless slant.
 
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sjastro

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I asked you a straightforward question to show me the maths and physics that supports your assertion that the Doppler shift of a sound wave is the result exchanging energy with the air.
Instead I get this monstrous mindless parroting of Wikipedia links and diagrams that have no relevance to the answer including the mandatory insults.

Your inability of answering the question and more importantly how you answered it simply confirms what everyone knows; you are totally out your depth; you are dishonest in trying to portray the opposite case; and you show a deep seated resentment to those that have a far greater depth of knowledge and understanding than you do.
 
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SelfSim

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What on earth are you (Justa) on about here?
What is your point?
You just posted information supporting what sjastro said ... and then you ask who he's trying to fool?!!!
Shheeessshhh!
 
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SelfSim

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Its unbelievable! ... Overwhelming in the depths of nonsensicality when someone (Justa) undertakes quote mining which defeats their own argument .. and then goes on to imply deception in what you've posted (all on the most basic of physics concepts)!!
What is going on here?
 
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SelfSim

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Says the guy that only preaches what those in the box tell him to think....
No one has 'told me what to think'

... and you should stop making such accusations right now!

Yes .. this is a warning!

Justatruthseeker said:
You are not convincing at all, due to the fact that your views are totalitarian and anyone not in line with them, even if they are the ones thinking out of the box, are always wrong. Just because it is not what you believe....
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe .. I haven't stated my beliefs.

You have 'zip' physics 'in our fishbowl which fits better'.
I'm perfectly clear on the difference between tangential acceleration and centripetal acceleration, for example. (You've shown you aren't, however).

Justatruthseeker said:
The difference is when I think outside the box, i still keep in mind the laws of physics discovered in the box,
No .. you have just demonstrated, in writing, that you have no idea about one of the oldest and the most basic astrophysical principles: centripetal and tangential forces of objects in orbit.

Understanding Relativity is way beyond the basic concepts of orbital motion, in which you just demonstrated in your postings, you have zero understanding.

Oh .. and stop stating that 'you all keep claiming to believe in Relativity', when for my part of this, I have never, ever stated any such thing!!
 
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SelfSim

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Can you not read properly?
I clearly stated that Physical Laws and physical constants are consistent descriptions of observations .. Those descriptions post-date the time of your 'Noah'.

If you want to develop your imaginings, do not use misquotes of what I've posted in support of that.
Develop your own case!
Thus far, (over the years), you haven't convinced anyone of your totally unusable concept.
 
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sjastro

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What on earth are you (Justa) on about here?
What is your point?
You just posted information supporting what sjastro said ... and then you ask who he's trying to fool?!!!
Shheeessshhh!
It's par for the course, comprehension is not a prerequisite for quote mining.
 
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sjastro

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Most likely it's a symptom of anti-intellectualism which is quite rife in this forum.
 
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sjastro

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On the subject of relativity and ether, our resident self professed polymath got himself confused when quoting Einstein's paper on ether.

Einstein's version of ether was a gravitational ether based on the physical properties of space-time, not the luminiferous ether which had mechanical properties such as an "Ether Wind" caused by a moving body through it such as the orbiting Earth and required an absolute frame of reference which the Michelson-Morley test showed did not exist.

 
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SelfSim

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I guess the phrase 'accelerating expansion of space' rolls off the fingertips with ease, but superficial word-salad only shapes beliefs .. and not physical properties.
 
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Ophiolite

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I guess the phrase 'accelerating expansion of space' rolls off the fingertips with ease, but superficial word-salad only shapes beliefs .. and not physical properties.
For your information, word salad is a concatentation of terms that sounds technical and impressive yet lacks significance or real meaning.

In contrast the phrase "accelerating expansion of space" is something that is well observed, has been quantitatively described and is associated with explanatory hypotheses.

Incorrectly claiming such a term is word salad indicates that either you don't know what word salad is, or you don't know what the accelerating expansion of space is, or both. Only you know which of these best defines your ignorance on the matter. Feel free to share.
 
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SelfSim

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Just an out of context misunderstanding here.

'Tis the meaning Justatruthseeker confers on the term "accelerating expansion of space" which turns it into word-salad and not the objective meaning science has for it. (I agree with your take on it).

I think your objection is more appropriately directed at the confusion and obfuscation caused by Justatruthseeker's misconceived nonsense ...(?)
His 'spin' appeals to those who seem to think science is based on beliefs .. rather than objective testing (& following its process).
 
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Ophiolite

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Fair enough. I haven't read through the entire thread and so the "prior art" established through earlier exchanges was foreign to me. I agree that technical terms can be abused and that abuse can aptly be called word salad.
 
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sjastro

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I guess the phrase 'accelerating expansion of space' rolls off the fingertips with ease, but superficial word-salad only shapes beliefs .. and not physical properties.
Continuing on the subject of ether, the polymath's cut and paste job on the critique of the Michelson-Morley test is rather outdated as it is based on mirror interferometry.

The modern day interferometers are based on resonant cavity interferometers which are millions of times more sensitive.
With the rate of increase of sensitivity in interferometer design, scientists expect to shortly reach levels where testing for Lorentz violation can be achieved.
Before the cranks start to jump up and down celebrating that luminiferous ether could exist afterall, Lorentz violation is a test for whether the laws of physics are in fact the same for all observers in inertial frames.
 
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