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Islam doesn't condone terror

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PHenry42

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From the lack of reply to the other points, and the lack of denial of the factuality of what I say, I take it that it's settled. Israel did commit ethnic cleansing in 1948. Good, I'll refer back to it in case someone else disagrees later.

That's the thing with inherent, basic civil and human rights. They're inherent. They don't come with a disclaimer saying "May be violated if national interest really, really, REALLY requires it".


Of course. But recognizing valid grievances is pretty much a prerequisite for reaching an agreement that brings an actual end to the conflict.


We have a deal. I support the settling of all grievances, even those which are held against Muslims. Where do we begin?
 
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b&wpac7

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PHenry42 said:
That's the thing with inherent, basic civil and human rights. They're inherent. They don't come with a disclaimer saying "May be violated if national interest really, really, REALLY requires it".
Click to expand...

There are no absolute rights. All rights are subject to the situation in which they occur. I have a right to free speech but I cannot use it to endanger people. I have a right of religion and free exercise thereof unless I am using it to break an existing law or other such offenses. I have a right to my property, but it can be taken away using eminent domain.
 
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plenary

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It depends... If one behaves like a slave, pays the stupid tax as commanded by the Quran, lives one hell of a sh*tty life, then it is maybe possible to survive...
But if a craze lunatic decides to end your life, that is that... And most of the times, it is not regarded as a crime, to kill a Jew or a Christian.... (Hell, they aren't even persecuted.) So much for justice... (But it gets a whole lot worse, because the Sharia is an abomination.)

Because they will always find a verse in the Quran, where it states that it is ok, in light of Jihad, to kill unbelievers...

It is a total nightmare, but I guess the devil also has some freedom to express himself, to a certain extend.....


Reason is forbidden in Islam, and so there is only blind obedience and blind will... And the both of them lead to the crimes against humanity as seen on the tv and internet.....


Islam is the devils playground. (Which also is stated explicitely in the Ahadith, because allah is the same as satan...)

But of course, that poses no problems, whatsoever, to the budding Muslim...

Muslims are slaves themselves, they are not free, can not think for themselves and many follow after the laws of hatred, which means total bondage....

God save us from this criminal doctrine.
 
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Rebax

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Again you spread the propoganda that you have copy from other websites. Why ain't you free-minded yourself and make your own research? Hopefully you will find it easier to understand things and don't have to look like a fool in the end of the argument.

“And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107)
When a person analyzes the legislations of Islam with an open mind, the Mercy mentioned in this verse will definitely become apparent. One of the aspects constituting an epitome of this Mercy is the way the legislations of Islam deal with people of other faiths. The tolerant attitude of Islam towards non-Muslims, whether they be those residing in their own countries or within the Muslim lands, can be clearly seen through a study of history. This fact is not only purported by Muslims, but many non-Muslim historians also accept it. Patriarch Ghaytho wrote:
‘The Arabs, to whom the Lord has given control over the world, treat us as you know; they are not the enemies of Christians. Indeed, they praise our community, and treat our priests and saints with dignity, and offer aid to churches and monasteries.’
Will Durant wrote
‘At the time of the Umayyad caliphate, the people of the covenant, Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Sabians, all enjoyed degree of tolerance that we do not find even today in Christian countries. They were free to practice the rituals of their religion and their churches and temples were preserved. They enjoyed autonomy in that they were subject to the religious laws of the scholars and judges.’
These just relations between Muslims and people of other faiths were not due to mere politics played by Muslim rulers, but rather they were a direct result of the teachings of the religion of Islam, one which preaches that people of other religions be free to practice their own faith, only accepting the guidance offered by Islam by their own choice. God says in the Quran:
“There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)
Not only does Islam demand their freedom to practice religion, but also that they be treated justly as any other fellow human. Warning against any abuse of non-Muslims in an Islamic society, the Prophet stated:
“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)
How far is this mannerism than the majority of nations, to this day, which not only suppress the rights of foreign religions, but also foreign peoples and races! In a time when Muslims were being tortured to death in then pagan Mecca, Jews were being persecuted in Christian Europe, and various peoples were being subjugated due to their particular race or caste, Islam called to the just treatment of all peoples and religions, due to its merciful tenets which gave humanity the right to their humanness.



Peace
 
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Rebax

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[To answer your question about tax]

What?!


God prohibits aggression and forbids fighting except when fought (2:190), and you want us to believe that the generation whom the Prophet (PBUH) described as the best generation, went out with their swords and forced their laws on other people and collected taxes from them as a price of their freedom?

How outrageous!

The Quran forbids imposing Islamic law on non-Muslim citizens and clearly says, "If they come to you [to arbitrate between them], judge between them or decline. If you decline, they cannot harm you, but if you judge between them, then judge with equity. God loves the equitable" (5:42)

Jizya is not a tax in return for freedom!! It is a defense tax with two purposes: achieving equity with Muslims who pay Zakah, and exempting non-Muslims from the military.

And, brother , one irony is that the people who usually make that charge are the ones who spread their religion at gun point! Natives of Europe and the Americas had two options: become Christian or die. Even Pope John Paul 2nd admitted that and apologized for it though he was obviously not party to it.
 
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plenary

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How outrageous!
Click to expand...
Butchering 3 little children of which one was just a baby and rejoicing over that fact is outrageous... Giving someone a medal because one has murdered a child is outrageous...


Yeah, so? No-one claims otherwise...

But that is contrary to the laws of Christianity...


And the argument, that Jihad is only to be fought when attacked, is a wax nose... Because there are both aggressive and non-aggressive verses... And one can choose one or the other... And many of the aggressive verses have no relation to wartime....
Wipe the infidels of the map, is a directive... Which has nothing to do with war or peacetime... Because even when one i not in a war, it is unreasonable to claim that infidels should be wiped of the map, because there are also civilians...
And the proof is in the pudding, the deceptive character of Islam, is that there are both seemingly peaceful verses and verses that are insidious...

Look at the predominant Muslim countries, look at the countries with Sharia... What is the level of freedom in those countries? Zero... What is the freedom of minorities? Zero, because Islam does not know secularism and few laws for non-Muslims... Therefore secularism and Islam cannot coexist... Just as well, that peace and Islam cannot coexist... (because of the absence of real love in Islam, because love for your own group, is no love at all, but a form of hatred...) And hatred, will never lead to peace...

And if you had only a little comprehension of the real laws of God, as taught by Christ Himself, you would have know these truths...

By what authority, did Muhammad abolish the laws of God??? As taught by Jesus Christ??? By what authority?

Islam is no religion of peace, because if it had been, it had know the laws of love... because peace only comes from love and war from hatred... (And actions speak louder than words....)


And I do not want to pay the tax and protection by islamic forces... Look at reality, Muslims are butchering Muslims and non-Muslims alike...
Islamic protection? no thanks... The only state which has reasonable Christian protection in the Middle east (besides Israel) is Syria... The rest is a total joke.

And Christians or secularists don't ask non-Muslims to pay special taxes, why should Islam.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Most Christian-Muslim arguments over here are based on biased sources and propaganda, how do you suggest the other side not do it when the majority Muslims are committed to it? Free your mind and do your own research? What does that mean really? How should he do his own research? I am sure he is doing so, why don't you say, change your sources to pro-Islamic sources rather than anti-Islamic sources? At that point though, you won't be able to recommend one should not use his own personal experiences, which hurts Islamic cause the most. When your book preaches something, your ummah treats it the opposite. Who now looks like a fool?
 
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Rebax

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A muslim when he moves to Europe for example have to pay ''tax'' imposition, so your statement fails.
The hatred some people might show towards Islam and the ill-practices of some Muslims should not hinder a Person from seeking the truth.

Jihad does not mean "holy war". (Thats something the Christians did in the Middle Ages). The Word Jihad actually stems from Juhd, to strive/struggle. This is encouraged and can be for anything to please God. It is a jihad to get up in the morning to go to pray and to go to work, it is a jihad to go school in the rain. etc.

Personal Jihad: The most excellent jihad is that of the soul. This jihad, called the Jihadun-Nafs, is the intimate struggle to purify the soul of satanic influence--both subtle and overt. It is the struggle to cleanse one's spirit of sin. This is the most important level of jihad.

Verbal Jihad: On another occasion, the Prophet said, "The most excellent jihad is the speaking of truth in the face of a tyrant." He encouraged raising one's voice in the name of Allah on behalf of justice.

Physical Jihad: This is combat waged in defense of Muslims against oppression and transgression by the enemies of Allah, Islam and Muslims. We are commanded by Allah to lead peaceful lives and not transgress against anyone, but also to defend ourselves against oppression by "fighting against those who fight against us." This "jihad with the hand" is the aspect of jihad that has been so profoundly misunderstood in today's world.

In the Quran, Jihad is not used in a sense to mean fighting. The Word Qitaal is used when mentioning warfare. The Quran makes it clear:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not do aggression, for Allah loves not the aggressors. Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers." (Al-Baqarah 190-194)

Jihad can be defensive. Such as protecting our homes, people, land and way of life. It can be Liberating, helping free others from tyranny and oppression and it can be preemptive which is launched only when Muslims know for sure that there is treason against their peaceful treaties with the enemy, when the enemy has a serious plan to attack them.
  • No Such thing as Forced Conversions
Muslims are encouraged to invite people to learn about Islam and possibly to accept Islam as the one and only way to live their lives. It is the greatest gift a person could ever give to another. To have an understanding of why they were created, and to be able to have ultimate success in this life and an eternity of bliss in the next. For the ultimate reward for Muslim is not tangible one, it is spiritual satisfaction, i.e. knowing the purpose of our lives, having complete ease and peace.

Allah (most glorified and most high) says in the Quran:

Invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [16:125]

and Allah says:

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût (false worship or idols)and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower [2:256]

It is forbidden to force anyone to become Muslim. And under ISlamic law, forced conversion is not seen as carrying any legal status. i.e. it is invalid. Infact, any forced action is seen as invalid. For every action in Islam is judged by the Intention and it is only Allah who knows what lies in our hearts.

This forbidden use of force is also seen in marriage. Men and Women can not be forced to marry each other. Women have the complete right to choose their spouses. Likewise, if a man and a woman are forced to marry each other, under Islamic law the marriage is seen as invalid.

I would like to remind the reader that the actions of one person or a group can not be used to pass sweeping judgements against Islam. Islam is free from all of these accusations and slurs.


Killing innocent Men, Women and Children is Forbidden

The use of Force is allowed in Islam. However, Islam lays down clear guidelines as to how warfare is carried out. It is not for anyone to take the law into their own hands.

Allah says in the Quran:

{Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.} [ 5 : 32]

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children. (Sahih Al Bukhari Chapter : Prohibition of killing women and children in war.)

Narated By Rabah ibn Rabi' : When we were with the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) on an expedition, he saw some people collected together over something and sent a man and said: See, what are these people collected around? He then came and said: They are round a woman who has been killed. He said: This is not one with whom fighting should have taken place. Khalid ibn al-Walid was in charge of the van; so he sent a man and said: Tell Khalid not to kill a woman or a hired servant. (Sunan Abu Dawood)

Ibn `Umar (May Allah bepleased with them) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "A believer continues to guard his Faith (and thus hopes for Allah's Mercy) so long as he does not shed blood unjustly".
[Al-Bukhari].


There happen to be people who unfortunately relish in promoting ignorance and hatred towards Muslims. They play on the ignorance of others, by giving false information. For this reason it is always important to find out about Islam from true Islamic sources, such as this website.

These people often misquote the Quran. An example is when they quote the following verse out of context:

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [2:191]

However, they do not quote the verse in its entirety and without establishing the facts surrounding these verses.

And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors.

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [Trials, Persecution] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[unless they (first) fight you there.

But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.[2:190-191]

Allah and his Prophet[Pbuh] forbid peopel from going to extremes.

The Messenger of Allaah (SAW) said, "I warn you of extremism in the Religion for indeed those that came before you were destroyed due to their extremism in the religion." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (5/268), ibn Maajah (no. 3029), Ahmad (1/215, 347) with a saheeh sanad

"Thus have We Made of you an Ummah justly balanced" [Al-Baqara 2:143] "Ummatan Wasata"

Allah almighty says in the Quran:

Thus We have made you* a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind.
[Al-Baqara 2:143]

"Ummatan Wasata" Means Nation that is the best, the just, the balanced, and the fair. Not one which goes to any extremes.

[*true Muslims are the real believers of Islâmic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways)]

Allah, most high, says in the Quran:

{O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Now has come to you Our Messenger (Muhammad SAW) explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and passing over (i.e. leaving out without explaining) much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allâh a light (Prophet Muhammad SAW ) and a plain Book (this Qur'ân).

Wherewith Allâh guides all those who seek His Good Pleasure to ways of peace, and He brings them out of darkness by His Will unto light and guides them to a Straight Way (Islâmic Monotheism). }
[Quran Surah Ma'idah 5:15-16]

Indeed, the message of Islam is about submitting to Allah and worhipping him alone. All people have a choice regarding this message. There is no compulsion in following Islam or not. It is not upon any Muslim to force another to do any action.
 
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Rebax

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I hope you read the post above.
 
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Rebax

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Since you're christian I will give you some verses from the bible that shows no mercy to innocent children as you stated that islam asks for.

Exodus 13
14 "In days to come, when your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' say to him, 'With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.'
16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."

this makes the Bible as a false book and a book of terror.


By the way, NOT A SINGLE NOBLE VERSE in the Noble Quran does it Command for Muslims to kill innocent children!I openly challenge the team of weasels to produce one, JUST ONE, Noble Verse from the Noble Quran that allows killing of innocent children or people!

The challange is set ;3

Peace.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Rebax said:
I hope you read the post above.
Click to expand...
I did, propaganda, lots of talk, no walk... You are lecturing people who has experience, you are not fixing any issues. Did you address any of my points?
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Rebax said:
Since you're christian I will give you some verses from the bible that shows no mercy to innocent children as you stated that islam asks for.
Click to expand...

No kidding, what else do you have but arguing Exodus? An instruction of God to a defined, limited people on a local ground, limited scale, how do you theologically apply that to this modern day? HOW? Show me how that applies today? The difference is, it is not global Jihad, it is not a command to fight until Islam remains, it is not a command that only religion before Allah is Islam.

this makes the Bible as a false book and a book of terror.
Click to expand...
Hardly.


Weasels... What a joke. It doesn't have to specify "innocent children" Your challenge is to show how Islam is peaceful in that respect.
Peace.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but not the one Islam promises, hopefully...
 
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plenary

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I would like to remind the reader that the actions of one person or a group can not be used to pass sweeping judgements against Islam. Islam is free from all of these accusations and slurs.
Click to expand...

Oh, but I judge Islam not on it's actions from it's members, I judge Islam on it's doctrine... (actions are just confirmation) And I repeat again:

By what authority, did Muhammad abolish the laws of God??? As taught by Jesus Christ??? By what authority?

I openly challenge the team of weasels to produce one, JUST ONE, Noble Verse from the Noble Quran that allows killing of innocent children or people!
Click to expand...

Thank you, for the compliment.
 
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simonpeter

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Bushmaster78FS said:
I did, propaganda, lots of talk, no walk... You are lecturing people who has experience, you are not fixing any issues. Did you address any of my points?
Click to expand...

Let's be fair. Rebax has given lots of evidence to substantiate his point, but you're just giving opinions as if they're truths which can never be refuted.
 
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plenary

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Let's be fair. Rebax has given lots of evidence to substantiate his point, but you're just giving opinions as if they're truths which can never be refuted.
Click to expand...

No, he copy pasted a lot of text from some site, it's all copy pasting...
 
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Rebax

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Oh, do you judge a religion by it's member but don't know what the religion really says? In sweden a christian man named ''Lasermannen'' killed 15 innocent immigrants, should I judge all christians by that?

And would you please put up the Laws of God that Jesus (Pbuh) Taught? (Examples). According to your question if the only verse I had about terror in christian no, it's not the only one....
Here's few more.


Deuteronomy 20:13-20
13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones):
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

And here where Righerous are begin killed before the wicked

Ezekiel 21
3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked.
4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north.
5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

​
 
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