• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Jamdoc

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2019
8,360
2,624
Redacted
✟276,680.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
So.. in reading this previously, I had glossed over, and in fact now I realize that my preference for the King James Bible actually hindered me here. I didn't really understand this verse, and thought it was just about working, and it was curious that offspring was mentioned here.
Here it is in the King James:

They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

but I posted this verse elsewhere and moused over, and it showed me a different translation of this verse, and scales fell off my eyes.

here are other versions

New International Version
They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them.

New Living Translation
They will not work in vain, and their children will not be doomed to misfortune. For they are people blessed by the LORD, and their children, too, will be blessed.

English Standard Version
They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.

Berean Standard Bible
They will not labor in vain or bear children doomed to disaster; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD—they and their descendants with them.

NASB 1995
They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD, And their descendants with them.

Just... wow.. all this time I'd been taught that this was Millennial Kingdom, and only unbelievers who survived the 70th week would be able to have children, we'd all be Eunuchs after the Resurrection.
But this is specific. This is redeemed people having children, whether on the New Earth or Millennial Kingdom this is after the resurrection. I believe New Earth because God says New Earth.

and this throws back to Genesis 3
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Isaiah 65:23 is a direct reversal of this curse, In fact from Isaiah 65:17 on is a reverse of the curse on the entire Earth, and on Adam as well. The only one not uncursed is the serpent "dust shall be the serpent's meat."
just language differences...

Genesis 3

while Isaiah 65
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Work on this current cursed Earth is toil, exhausting, painful, it wears you down, work on the New Earth, enjoyable.
 
Last edited:

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,766
10,512
79
Auckland
✟448,890.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Work on this current cursed Earth is toil, exhausting, painful, it wears you down, work on the New Earth, enjoyable.

Work in His Kingdom now, within His blessing and Kingship is free from the curse and is fulfilling.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2019
8,360
2,624
Redacted
✟276,680.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Work in His Kingdom now, within His blessing and Kingship is free from the curse and is fulfilling.
I think it's still affected by the curse. It still exhausts people, and still results in pain and suffering. Nothing on earth is free of the curse.
Not this Earth.


So when Jesus was talking to the disciples in the upper room, He had asked them when He sent them out to evangelize if they were ever lacking anything, and they replied nothing (it's in Luke 22). That was because God was literally on the Earth providing for them.
But when Jesus was going to be leaving Earth, He told them to buy swords. They were going to be back in a cursed world fending for themselves.

The New Earth, God provides again, as originally in the Garden of Eden, God provided. Oh God still provides... but it's not the rule, it's the exception to the rule. Christians do go through seasons where they lack things they need. Christians die of starvation, Christians die of exposure, natural disaster. It is still a cursed world. Isaiah 65 is not fulfilled.

When Jesus said "seek first the Kingdom of God", He did not mean "do a prayer and God will then give you everything you need on this Earth" He was talking about the Kingdom in the New Heavens and New Earth, seek that, seek God's righteousness, and in the Kingdom, God would add all those things needed to them.

as we come back to Isaiah 65 we see this:
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

The response from God to prayer will be much more than it is now.

We also see the level of God's providence on the New Earth in Revelation 21

This Earth is cursed, even for Christians, the next one, without the curse, God provides in a way that we have never known. You may think you know, but none of us do.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,766
10,512
79
Auckland
✟448,890.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We don't see it the same way sadly...

Yes we are not released from the curse of the Fall before resurrection.

However, through obedience, we benefit from the blessings of the Kingdom promises now. This includes fulfilment from working in the tasks of His choosing.

Sadly many miss out on these blessings and miss the blessed life He intends for us.
 
Upvote 0