C
catholichomeschooler
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Interesting.
That's what Catholics believe.
Those who cooperate with God's grace will be saved.
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Calvinist believe that all those that are willing, that seek, that knock, that ask, that believe etc will be accepted. We don't believe that God/Christ rejects anyone that repents and seeks Him.
Interesting.
That's what Catholics believe.
Those who cooperate with God's grace will be saved.
Wow. Finally doing some work.I guess I'll do the work and let the chips fall where they may.
No, the pages of dodging are all yours.So according to FG, "those He predestined He also called" refers to believers. I cannot seem to get him to give any sort of exegesis. This is as close as he's come. It's a bit odd, so I hoped he would clear it up. Instead, we have pages of him dodging doing so.
The nonsense is your trying to twist my words. I never said that "called" is a noun. In fact, at the beginning of this post you acknowledged that I indicated that "those He called" REFERS to believers. I never said "called" is a noun, nor did I ever treat it as a noun. These cheap tricks do not bolster your defense.So "the called" equals believers in v. 30. But does this make sense? It seems to me that "called" is used as a verb here, yet FG uses it as a noun. This is a bit confusing since as a noun, the sentence is nonsense.
"More" of a verb??? How does that work? Please demonstrate your view of what may be "less" of a verb.The other definition he's used has been to equate the call to the gospel offer. Yes, more of a verb here.
I suppose "done questions" has meaning, but not to me.But it does leave done questions that I'm sure will be discarded.
The predestined are the same ones as the called. Duh. I never said they are the only ones to get this offer. Still trying to put words in my mouth.One, who are the predestined, and why are they the only ones who get this offer?
Two, why do they need this offer at all if they are predestined?
All who seek God (Acts 17:27) get the offer.Three, why doesn't everyone get this offer?
Yes, yes, and yes.Will there be any concise answers? Will we get any sort of exegesis for this passage? Time will tell.
Seems you didn't understand what you wrote. Or just weren't truthful about what you wrote.Seems you didn't understand the sentence as a whole.
There is no misinterpretation. Paul quoted from Psa 14:1-3. Directly.It's a common misinterpretation that said passage is speaking about Atheists.
Actually, the context for Rom 3:10 is v.9, where Paul makes the statement that both Jews and Gentiles alike are ALL under sin. Then He quotes from 6 OT passages to demonstrate the various ways that ALL are under sin.The context is concerning those that behave as if God does not see or is watching.
I have no tradition. I DO take Scripture at face value. It would be nice if RT did the same.You do pretzel work of the scriptures in order to establish your tradition. Just take what it says at face value.
Yes, you should be quite sorry for trying to force Eph 1:4 to MEAN what you claim. There is nothing in 1:4 about predestination or eternal life.Oh I'm sorry, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, and predestined us for adoption as sons. Not eternal life. Just maybe like a few days then the fun's over.
How would you know that?The big difference is that you believe grace to be necessary, not sufficient.
So "the called" isn't a noun? Your view gets more and more confusing.Wow. Finally doing some work.
No, the pages of dodging are all yours.
The nonsense is your trying to twist my words. I never said that "called" is a noun. In fact, at the beginning of this post you acknowledged that I indicated that "those He called" REFERS to believers. I never said "called" is a noun, nor did I ever treat it as a noun. These cheap tricks do not bolster your defense.
Not putting words in your mouth. Quite the opposite. I've spent pages trying to get you to exegete the passage using your definition of called. You've refused to do so and have kept putting it back on me. So I'm doing what you asked and am explaining WHY it doesn't make sense. Oh, and you used "RFE called" as a noun again.The predestined are the same ones as the called. Duh. I never said they are the only ones to get this offer. Still trying to put words in my mouth.
And now you are using called as a verb.Romans 10:14
How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
I thought all believers understood this principle.
All who seek God (Acts 17:27) get the offer.
Seems you didn't understand what you wrote. Or just weren't truthful about what you wrote.
How would you know that?
The big difference is that you believe grace to be necessary, not sufficient.
Grace is sufficient and necessary. Without it we can't be saved.
What part do works play in salvation?
We must cooperate with God's grace.
John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.
We can't do it alone, but we don't have to!!
So I stand by my point that you see grace as necessary, but not sufficient.
God's grace has appered to all men.
Do you think all men will be saved?
It is not a matter of grace being sufficient, it is a matter of men rejecting God's grace.
Paul illustrates this perfectly here:
Col 1:24
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. (Titus 2:1-14 NASB)
The grace that brings salvation actually saves those it comes to.
That's not what it says. We are capable of rejecting God's grace.
2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
1 Timothy 5:8
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
That is what it says. And the verses you've posted have nothing to do with rejecting grace.
When Eph 2:8 is considered, the grace that saves is through faith. Let's not forget that.The grace that brings salvation actually saves those it comes to.
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