Is This Message About Goths Accurate??

KenobiKid · Jul 17, 2004

I think I speak for everyone when I say reading that has created a loss of brain cells for the reader. For lack of better words, that's just the dumbest thing I have ever read, period. So I guess I should seek some help because I have a black Beatles shirt that I love to wear? Geez.

Serapha · Jul 17, 2004

Bryan Lim said:
Heck, I like to wear symbols of the occult as a pendant, .

Hi there!

I'm sorry, you are purposefully opening the door to spiritual warfare. You cannot serve two masters, and to wear symbols of the occult gives that part of your personal life the glory to something or someone other than God.

~serapha~

Bryan Lim · Jul 17, 2004

Serapha said:
Hi there!

I'm sorry, you are purposefully opening the door to spiritual warfare. You cannot serve two masters, and to wear symbols of the occult gives that part of your personal life the glory to something or someone other than God.

~serapha~

Serapha,
you must understand that i take those pendants just for what it is, a pendant. I am NOT into occult or anything. In fact, I love to worship God. Satan is NOT my father or ever will be.
I love the pendant just for the self-image. My outward look may be a Goth but my heart belongs to God.

Bevlina · Jul 17, 2004

I'm afraid Serapha is right Bryan. While you wear that symbol of darkness, you are open to spiritual attack. And, you have your feet in two camps. Either you place both feet in God's camp, or you place two in satan's. It's be better for you to throw that thing away and stand in God's camp and ask forgiveness for your ignorance. You were not to know until it was pointed out to you.
It's better to forget self image, and focus on God image.

Bryan Lim · Jul 17, 2004

But, but, but.....how liking a pendant opens myself to spiritual attacks??

Bevlina · Jul 17, 2004

Can you explain what the pendant looks like Bryan?

You see...if you wear anything at all that represents occultic practises, you are opening yourself to heavy spiritual warfare. Just explain to us what it looks like and we'll see if we can work it out from there.
I would suggest to you to read a book about Spiritual Warfare also. It's an indepth study, and we are only trying to help you.
But you see, demons, and satan know the Bible backwards too.

Bryan Lim · Jul 17, 2004

It is a cross but to me, it is a Gothic-looking cross. Nothing serious. But to me, it is looks Gthic and that is why I love it. in the middle of the crosss, there is something that reminds me of the scout's logo, the one that looks like a flower that has three petals. Bevlina, thanks for your concern anyway.

Bevlina · Jul 17, 2004

Is it something like this to look at Bryan? I don't know the history of the Gothic Cross. But that looks fairly harmless to me. Am I right Serapha?

However...I came across this website while searching for the origin of the Goths. (We must remember England was Gothic at one stage)

Have a look at it and see what you think? If it's no good...just ignore it.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm

CJ.23 · Jul 17, 2004

Goth was a fashion movement in Britain roughly 83-85. By '87 it achieved it height of mainstream subcultural acceptance. Today what is called goth is really neo-goth, or what I call goth is 'trad goth'. More accurate for todays scene would be industrial, darkwave, oh look if your kids don't know who or what VNV Nation, Laibach, Bauhaus, Pete Murphy, Carl McCoy, The Rosetta Stone, Whitby Goth Fest, Wayne Hussey or Merciful Release is, then they ain't goths, and if they do, then they are ar eprobably old enoug and sensible enough to know what they are doing.

Ask DJ_Ghost: we both know plenty of Christian Goths, and that list bears no relation to Goth subculture as I experienced it.

cj x

EDIT: Most of the goths i have ever met have been highly intelligent rationalists or devout memebers of mainstream faiths. Occult belief is fairly minor, though occult symbolism i often drawn upon; goth is heavy on satire, and spoffs B Movies, melodrama and the byronic tradition. That there are some kids who can't tell the difference between satire and acceptance, well is anyone surprised? Sadly all the goths generally do, inmy experience, is laught at those who naively actually adopt the old hocu spocus and silly pseudo-satanic symbolism. The best way of curing your child from such adolescent ouija prodding pseudery is to point out they look like a dweeb, and tell them to get a life.

cj x

CJ.23 · Jul 17, 2004

Bevlina said:
Is it something like this to look at Bryan? I don't know the history of the Gothic Cross. But that looks fairly harmless to me. Am I right Serapha?

However...I came across this website while searching for the origin of the Goths. (We must remember England was Gothic at one stage)

Have a look at it and see what you think? If it's no good...just ignore it.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm

Bevlina is right. Goth means many things, and there are 4 main associations

1. Scandanavian/Germanic Tribes (probably from teh Steppes originally) who conquered Europe in the 3rd to 5th centuries AD, during the fall of the Roman Empire.

2. A 13th century architectural styl;e; all the great Cathedral of Europe are Gothic, meaning 'german' - that is all the word really means. There was a gothic Revival from 1780 to the mid 1850's in architecture and many US churches are gothic in style.

3. A literary movement, the gothic was a romantic genre of fiction, with romantic, sensationalist and supernatural elements. The most well know works are Frankenstien and The Castle of Otranto, though there are many more. Gothic was part of the Romantic Movement - Byron can be seen as a gothic hero in every respect.

4. A musical genre; the term was coined by Mick Mercer in the late 70's to describe Souixie and the Banshees, and had by 1990 really become meaningless. Goth fashion however persists and is associated with a number of musical styles, such as Darkwave, Industrial, Rock, and many forms of Metal.

Hope that helps.
cj x

Bevlina · Jul 17, 2004

Very interesting CJ. So that website is correct then?

CJ.23 · Jul 17, 2004

Yep. In reality, if your child is interested in goth, they are probably not on eof the 'popular kids' and are less likely to be involved in teenage sex, drugs or that sort of thing than their mainstream peers. THing is, as a parent, just listen to what tehy have to say, and be interested. Igf yopu remeber the 'Hammer House of Horror' and Wolfman/Dracula movies of th epast, well that is the level of 'occult' involvement generally, people pastiching old B movies. I'm sure some of you dressed up as witches at Halloween when kids, and that Satan did not claim your soul.

Honestly, a little love, attention, and listening to your youngsters 'shocking music' with an air of amused detachment will earn you much more respect than condemning them for occult practices tehy are probably way too sensitive or clever to be bothered with. Get your relationship of love and trust with your child right, and it will take a lot more than rock music to make them change.

cj x

CJ.23 · Jul 17, 2004

And seriously, if anyone is ever worried about 'goth' or 'occult' or similar symbolism their children are using, feel free to pm me to show me the thread, or ask. I have a pretty good knowledge of this stuff, and honestly, most of ot is just tat, and people who wear it are unaware of the symbolism. We live in aworld where Christians still consult TV psychics and astrologers - that amazes and horrifies me so much, that the odd teenage rebel playing at moping about in the dark is not really an issue in comparison.

Teenagers are deopressed; their bodies and lives are changing, and they want to understand what is happenning, and deal with it. they are clever enough, 99.9% of them, to sort it out for themselves. Grown adults who play around with mediums channelers etc should know better!

cj x

Bevlina · Jul 17, 2004

That is so very true CJ. We can't demonise everything. Tolerance is pleasurable with the young. We are to be aware of what's going on, and steer correctly. Some music is evil, I think they call it masqued music. There are hidden messages masked in it.
Messages designed to enter the subconscious or something. But I believe that if we take an interest in the children, rather than condemning them, and more or less forcing them to do it in secret is the way to go.

CJ.23 · Jul 17, 2004

Yes, back masking exists. However I have never seen any evidene that kids can understand it or act upon it. The music often has pretty shocking lyrics - the modern stuff - but at the end of the day, that is what it about Shock Horror. There are much more frightening and anti-christian philosophical ideas expressed in many mainstream secular artistes - it's jsut what the kid is sensitive to.

I say again, because I truly believe it - if a loving parent spends time understanding and looking after their child, no occult nonsense or rhird rate music is ever going to tear them away. Don't fear the devil, love your kids.

I agree Bevlina with you, but I have seen so much fear, I have come to relaise that we can give to much credit to the darkness. We have nothing to fear!

cj x

KenobiKid · Jul 17, 2004

That's not true in all cases, Goth is fashionable the same way Punk is now. Most kids don't know what the look details just that Hot Topic stores are selling it and every other kid in their school is wearing it.

Lottedah · Jul 17, 2004

Hmm Im goth and I head up a pretty successful ministry and Im sold out for God.. The best thing about being goth or having been goth is you have a special road in with these kids hearts. For me Im always teasing them and telling them just because they like lipstick doesnt mean they cant be friendly and it doesnt make them preps.. God has used me alot with goth kids and with the ones who choose to play with the occult. They all get set free and sold out for Jesus and thats all that matters not some silly piercing or vampire suit should keep any christian away from them or judge them outrightly by appearances.

RyanLJohnson1 · Jul 17, 2004

[bible]1 Samuel 16:7[/bible]
[bible]Matthew 23:25[/bible]
[bible]John 7:24[/bible]
[bible]2 Corinthians 10:7[/bible]

Love in Yeshua,
Ryan

Palatka44 · Jul 17, 2004

I love to wear black. This list makes me the oldest goth responding to this thread.

Ave Maria · Jul 17, 2004

Bevlina said:
Very interesting CJ. So that website is correct then?

Hey Bevlina. I am guessing you are referring to the http://www.religioustolerance.org site right? If so, I must tell you that I have used this site for quite some time and I have always found it to be very factual and unbiased.

Is This Message About Goths Accurate??

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