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is the Obelisk really satanic??

JohnMarsten

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thanks to ECR I learned about the following site

poGm

brwosing through it I read about the following

Baal worship and Steeples

it help me realize that there are some adventists who actually 'believe' the obelisk to be satanic, (I wouldnt have expected that)

now that brings me back to an old topic

the WHITE OBELISK

The White Obelisk

what do you think about it in the context of satanism/masonry...???

... and if you say they didnt know it back in the day and people used to set up obelisk in general on graveyards... well since God didnt show her/warn her in vision about it, then it might not really be satanic or whatever...

curious about what you have to say about it!
 

EastCoastRemnant

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Interesting, I didn't know that they had an obelisk as a grave marker...

The symbol is most definitely occult in origin as a phallic symbol and is used extensively in Masonry.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that the meaning wasn't known to sister White. She wrote many times against membership in secret societies and unless James was a member secretly, it may have been used as a way to desecrate their grave site. Just as the church steeples are representative of the same phallic symbol but many are ignorant to it's meaning...
 
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JohnMarsten

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wow, you didnt know...

I thought adventists were ignorant of the satanic origin of the obelisk, I mean how can you otherwise demonize something that is on the gravesite of your prophet...

She may not have know, well... I think the Lord should have told her about it... dont you think its ridiculous to talk about chess and checkers and, well... you know what I mean...

Couldnt they have simply set up a christian cross??

do you know what the founder of Jehovas Witnesses has on his gravesite...

have a look, just in case...

Google
 
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JohnMarsten

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but then, what do you think about my link showing obelisk in regular sda churches??
 
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JohnMarsten

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and btw, of course she had to write against it...
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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found another one, actually quite a lot in adventist churches

Adventist Obelisks - Sun Worship - Digging for Truth

maybe someone should warn these people, cause they apparently dont know what they are doing, right?"?

It's amazing how much apostasy has crept into the SDA organization.... the Jesuits have made it their goal to subvert all protestant churches, especially the SDA. The teachings coming from her seminaries today is not what the early church would even recognize. They teach ecumenicalism, humanism and various other new age philosophies to the emerging pastors...

But just as Israel was at various times in great apostasy, they were still God's people and there were always a remnant that stayed true to the sure Word that they were founded upon.

We need to pray for the leadership of the SDA church that they may turn from their wayward path and come back to a belief in the pillars and platforms. The new GC president, Ted Wilson, in his inaugural speech, addressed many of these problems within the church. Hopefully change will soon come about...
 
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E.T.Elijah

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There are many conjectures against why this "obelisk" grave stone is on the White grave, but in essense it means little. First if one would do some research into grave stones, you will find that it was a very popular type of grave marker during the turn of the century.
Secondly, as many of her detractors forget, she was human. She was not God, therefore she was also susceptible to error, just like those men and women of the Bible. What I find so funny, is that doubters of her prophectic gift always search for these "errors" in her writings or person to disprove her, yet none argue against Peter for the errors he was spreading that Paul corrected him in. Or maybe we should discount all that Solomon wrote because he fell away from the Lord for a while. People are human and are not infalllible. Unfortunately, there are some SDA's that may seem to hold her up as infallible, just like those of the Catholic church hold the Pope as infallible.
Now for a personal story of my own. When my first wife died, I had to suddenly make decisions that neither one of us had ever talked through before. So, I decided to have her cremated and thought nothing of it. A couple years later, my grandfather's brother died. His sisters had him cremated, and my grandfather (Christian but not SDA) was beside himself and very upset with them. He said that it was a pagan custom to burn the dead. I had never really given it much thought until he mentioned that. Now, having done that to my wife, does that make me pagan? Of course not. I did, what I felt would be according to her wishes and to honor the end of her life. Now having spoken with my grandfather about this, I can't go back and uncremate her can I?
In essense symbols only ever mean what the person using them intends. Did Sister White intend for her grave stone to show that she worshipped Satan? Or was is to just mark the spot of her burial? I think by looking at the life she led and the things she wrote point us to the latter. Please keep in mind, just because God reveals things to certain people that no longer takes away their humanity in everyday life. We all make decisions based on circumstances that come up and don't necessarily look for God to give us direct answers to every one of them. God does not tell me daily what to have for breakfast when I go to my kitchen. He does not pick out my clothes or reveal to me what shampoo to buy when at the store. So why is it hard to fathom that God did not give Sister White every word or thought or action that she did. She was not some puppet that He controlled and personally led her life for her. She was human, just like Paul, Elijah, Moses, John the Baptist, and Daniel. Sometimes she wrote letters to others that were of her own personal thoughts, just as Paul wrote letters mentioned in the Bible that we have never found. God revealed things to her if and when He saw fit, and then she continued in life just like the rest of us do; trying our best to follow God through the leading of His Holy Spirit in all of our human imperfections. If she mentions that she was show "in vision" then we can know that she spoke of things God revealed propheticly to her. But also, saying "I was shown" could also mean through personal study and prayer. God shows me things every day, and so far none have required that I have the prophetic gift.
Now, as for symbolism in the Adventist church. I can say from personal experience that not all who attend church, even leaders, are followers of God. I was in the church for 10 years, and sometimes in leadership roles, and never really had a relationship with God. So, if I can say that about myself, I know that I cannot be alone. And I think that goes for each and every denomination our there, not just SDA. And I can be fairly certain that it can extend into higher leadership just by looking at all the corruption going on in American churches lately. Pastors, priests, bishops, reverends involved in sex scandals, money laundering, pornography, and even murders. So to think that Adventism is in some way immune would be naive. People are saved on an individual basis, not corporately. So, we must not forget that. Now having said that, why is noone accusing the Baptists or Presbyterians of being masonic and Satanic because of the symbols represented on their churches? The cross, yes it brings in remembrance of what Christ did for us, was also first a symbol of Roman punishment. Why honor the cross symbol when it was the means that put our Savior to death. We don't place large rocks in churches in honor of Christ being our Rock. Sometimes things are placed in churches because they are artistic or sometimes they distinguist the building from other buildings in the area. A steeple with a cross on it for example does not bring to mind that mason's or Satanist gather there. Most people see it and recognize it as a Christian church. And then therefore go there to find Jesus. Sometimes things really mean just what they mean and not have some secretive meaning behind them. I think if you ask the average everyday worshipper of a Baptist church why they have the symbols they have, none will tell you they do it in honor of Satan but want to put on the facade of Christianity. So I would say don't get too held up on the outward symbols and look on the inside to see if Christ is really with the individuals.
 
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Princessdi

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ECR, the Jesuits? Really?


 
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Princessdi

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Excellent!

 
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EastCoastRemnant

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ECR, the Jesuits? Really?


You don't think the Jesuits have been a threat to protestantism from it's inception? Why do you think they were formed in the first place?

Do you think the testimony of brother Riviera was fake? You don't think the 'mother church' will do everything she can to bring her wayward daughters back under her influence?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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ETE, I agree with you that sister White was only human that was given a measure of light, not all of it.

As far as the symbols, they are not meant for the 'uninitiated' to understand but for those 'illuminated' ones to know what is under their control.
 
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JohnMarsten

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Alright... let us admit for a while that she didnt know about that stone, and God didnt reveal the meaning to her...

OK, BUT!!!!

Is it satanic in meaning now??

Why not destroy it??

and what are the other obelisks doing (check my second link) why not remove them??

 
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EastCoastRemnant

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They are only symbolic to those that put meaning into them, not inherently so. A triangle or a circle with a dot in it's center means nothing unless you assign it a meaning....

My comment on the apostasy within the church is in reference to the fact that these sybols are present in more thatn an innocent degree within our church and show that Satan believes he has control over it.

Would removing the symbols matter? No, the only thing that can bring a reformation among Adventists is earnest, repentive prayer from the leadership of the church to turn from the teachings and practices is now engaging in and to be lead by the Holy Spirit...
 
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JohnMarsten

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just for clarity's sake, and even though it may seem ignorant...

what do you mean by leadership curren teachings and practices... I have never really scrutinized these...
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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just for clarity's sake, and even though it may seem ignorant...

what do you mean by leadership curren teachings and practices... I have never really scrutinized these...

I have posted on these before but would rather focus on the need of prayer for these men than to continue to drag the church through any more negative back biting.

Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss...
 
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JohnMarsten

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I have posted on these before but would rather focus on the need of prayer for these men than to continue to drag the church through any more negative back biting.

Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss...

could you provide me some links anyway?

let me put it this way: prayer is always the best solution (however, personally I never really got into the prayer thing, maybe I dont have that gift, who knows, maybe God will bestow that one upon me in the future)

Personally I guess people should be made aware of any false teachings and practises, this is not backbiting, or was Jesus backbiting when he adressed the pharisees?

Church men are regularly backbiting other denominations, I guess you should agree on that, when it comes to their own ponds, however, well, its a sacred cow... one should not critisize, and this is wrong, the church is the body of Christ, it consists of all believers on earth, the church leaders are no heads whatsoever, they are just workers, doing work on our behalf, living off our money, they are not our superiors, they are our employees, at least thats the way I see it, any hirarchie is wrong right from the beginning, Jesus is the greatest, and he served the people, so if any man wants to step up in the hirarchie he or she has to serve others, as for me I never accepted any authority on earth and spoke up against anything I deemed right to speak up against. and guess what? no one was ever able to dominate me... they rather tried to avoid me not that I am happy about it... its not that easy not having a real life person to look up to, but hey, that the way the Lord has brought me up
 
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