Is the KJV more than a translation

Almost there · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Please read this article here:

The Holy Bible is Inspired Word-for-Word by God
(Please take note that I do not believe this website's vew on Soteriology; For I believe Eternal Security is extremly unbiblical).

I side with Biblica.

Keep in mind that the bible is simply a bunch of books and letters that someone decided were the "official" list of "real and truthful" writings. And then we have the Apocrypha. BTW, these guys also have a completely free bible: Blue Letter Bible - Wikipedia

I actually used to use it when it was still a work in progress.

If I had time, I'd love to create my own version, using the online lexicons available. But the world doesn't need that and my time is spent better elsewhere.

I believe the bible is not "scripture". Scripture predates the bible. I would love to see someone publish a bible as encyclopedias used to be published. i.e. a bunch of different volumes. You'd have the history, the gospels, the letters, all in separate volumes. 66 of them. Some only one or two pages long. It would be a physical reminder of what the bible is.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Almost there said:
I side with Biblica.

Keep in mind that the bible is simply a bunch of books and letters that someone decided were the "official" list of "real and truthful" writings. And then we have the Apocrypha. BTW, these guys also have a completely free bible: Blue Letter Bible - Wikipedia

I actually used to use it when it was still a work in progress.

If I had time, I'd love to create my own version, using the online lexicons available. But the world doesn't need that and my time is spent better elsewhere.

I believe the bible is not "scripture". Scripture predates the bible. I would love to see someone publish a bible as encyclopedias used to be published. i.e. a bunch of different volumes. You'd have the history, the gospels, the letters, all in separate volumes. 66 of them. Some only one or two pages long. It would be a physical reminder of what the bible is.

Update on article reference:
Bible Versions: Are There Significant Differences? Corruption Exposed!
(Note: I changed the article because the previous one was also promoting Eternal Security of which I disagree with strongly).

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Almost there said:
Why do you hate modern translations so much. Are yo completely blind to the flaws of the KJV? They are ALL flawed in minor ways.

I have a freind that went to Christian college to deep dive into theology and Greek & Hebrew. I asked her one day which is the best version of the bible to trust. Her answer stunned me, and I paraphrase:

"The only way to fully understand the bible is to become fluent in the languages in which it was originally written. And she meant the specific versions of Greek and Hebrew.

Since neither of us is such a scholar, we are left to trust our own choice of authorities and, more importantly, prayer.

I use all versions and really have no favorite. The KJV is my least favorite only because it is not written in my native tongue. It might as well be in Spanish, which I know a little. But I throw none of the versions that I've come across out completely.

If you reject the Bible as the Written Word of God, I am not looking to convince you. You are going to have to come to faith in the Written Word of God all on your own with the Lord.

Almost there · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Update on article reference:
Bible Versions: Are There Significant Differences? Corruption Exposed!
(Note: I changed the article because the previous one was also promoting Eternal Security of which I disagree with strongly).

I actually read a lot of that article and did some research on several of the verses in question. I think the guy is wrong in his perception of what is happening. And sometimes he's not even telling the truth. e.g. he says, "The Bible tells us plainly that God used “holy MEN of God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” to give us His written Word (2 Peter 1:20-21)."

But here are those two verses: 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

It's talking about prophesy, specifically. And it is in past tense.

And one more:

He said, "Matthew 17:21 removed in new versions because Satan didn’t want God’s people to know how to cast him out.

Modern versions do not remove that verse, though the NIV does make it a footnote. And there is a totally valid reason for that.

Matthew 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Almost there · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
If you reject the Bible as the Written Word of God, I am not looking to convince you. You are going to have to come to faith in the Written Word of God all on your own with the Lord.

What is interesting is that that used to be my belief when people told me that is what I should believe. But a few decades of reading it has altered my perspective. For one thing, it never claims to be the word of God. It is simply inference on the part of some people. For another, there are places where it specifically says the particular words being written are not the word of God, but the writer's own words (Paul).

And people whining in Psalms are certainly not speaking "the word of God".

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Almost there said:
What is interesting is that that used to be my belief when people told me that is what I should believe. But a few decades of reading it has altered my perspective. For one thing, it never claims to be the word of God. It is simply inference on the part of some people. For another, there are places where it specifically says the particular words being written are not the word of God, but the writer's own words (Paul).

And people whining in Psalms are certainly not speaking "the word of God".

I am not interested in your lack of faith in the Bible not being the Written Word of God.
Please move on.

You either believe all of the Bible in what it says or you don't believe it.
For it is the same reason why I will strive so as not argue with atheists over evidences.
They first need to believe and have faith in order to see.

I can show you all the verses in the world that show that the Bible is the Word of God, but if you already start out with a belief that denies that the Bible is God's Word, I cannot help you. Only God can help you to see (if you are open to seeing it).

Almost there · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I am not interested in your lack of faith in the Bible not being the Written Word of God.
Please move on.

You either believe all of the Bible in what it says or you don't believe it.
For it is the same reason why I will strive so as not argue with atheists over evidences.
They first need to believe and have faith in order to see.

I'm simply responding to your assertions and inferences about me. Out of curiosity, what does "believe all of the bible" mean, as you use it above?

Do you "believe" this:

How is Paul saying that he was speaking and not God affect the doctrine of inspiration? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Almost there said:
I'm simply responding to your assertions and inferences about me. Out of curiosity, what does "believe all of the bible" mean, as you use it above?

Do you "believe" this:

How is Paul saying that he was speaking and not God affect the doctrine of inspiration? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17). 1 Corinthians 7 is Scripture just as much as Genesis is Scripture. As another fellow Christian states,

"God inspired Paul to write those words in his letter. The fact that they are Paul's opinion (but a divinely inspired opinion) are unimportant. They are meant to be there, and they are just as inspired as every other part of the Epistle. The Bible also contains many other things that are not the direct command of God - stories of people who did less-than-righteous things; opinions offered by characters that do not necessarily reflect God's opinions."

My Comment: So just because God records things in Scripture does not always mean God agrees with everything He records or that He prevents His followers from expressing their Godly opinion. This is not in conflict with God's Word being divinely inspired in these cases. Genesis 3 is a great example. While God did not want Adam and Eve to fall, he recorded it in Scripture as a spiritual lesson for us (none the less). If God did not want Paul's opinion in Scripture in 1 Corinthians 7, the Lord our God would have made sure it was not a part of Scripture. All words in Scripture were recorded for our learning about the things of God.

Source:
Is 1:Cor 7:26-40 not the 'Word of God'?

gordonhooker · Nov 28, 2017

After reading quite a number of pages from this thread it brought to mind Leon Festinger's proposal on 'cognitive dissonance' which I have copied here from wikipedia...

In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency in order to mentally function in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. This is done by changing parts of the cognition to justify the stressful behavior, by adding new parts to the cognition that causes the psychological dissonance, or by actively avoiding social situations and contradictory information that are likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance.

Disclaimer.... this in not necessarily aimed at anyone in particular but is simply provided here as food for thought...

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

gordonhooker said:
After reading quite a number of pages from this thread it brought to mind Leon Festinger's proposal on 'cognitive dissonance' which I have copied here from wikipedia...

Disclaimer.... this in not necessarily aimed at anyone in particular but is simply provided here as food for thought...

Jesus did not answer his accusers. Does that mean He was wrong for doing so?
We are also told not to cast our pearls before swine. I take this to mean that we as believers should not share our precious gemstones from the Word of God with atheists who would just turn around and mock such treasures. I also take this to mean that we as believers should not share moments of God whereby He does amazing things in our life as a part of our walk with Him with atheists. Again, they would just mock such things in our lives. They would not treat these treasures as precious but they would try to use them against us. So just because one seeks not to converse with others, does not mean the pycho babble from pychatrists here is true. I trust God's Word any day over what they say.

gordonhooker · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Jesus did not answer his accusers. Does that mean He was wrong for doing so?
We are also told not to cast our pearls before swine. I take this to mean that we as believers should not share our precious gemstones from the Word of God with atheists who would just turn around and mock such treasures. I also take this to mean that we as believers should not share moments of God whereby He does amazing things in our life as a part of our walk with Him with atheists. Again, they would just mock such things in our lives. They would not treat these treasures as precious but they would try to use them against us. So just because one seeks not to converse with others, does not mean the pycho babble from pychatrists here is true. I trust God's Word any day over what they say.

Dude if the cap fits wear it......

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Also, our God is a God of order and logic. Our God is a God who keeps His promises to His own Word. If God says that His Word is perfect and that it would be preserved for all generations within the Scriptures... I believe that! Can I explain how it works? I don't know because I am not God. But I simply take it by faith that His Word is true.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

gordonhooker said:
Dude if the cap fits wear it......

So you are saying that Jesus should have answered his accusers instead of remaining silent?
You are saying we should cast our pearls before swine?

Side Note:

BTW ~ Calling somebody "dude" is disrespectful if you don't know the person; Especially if they are a professor or the President or something.

gordonhooker · Nov 28, 2017

Jason0047 said:
So you are saying that Jesus should have answered his accusers instead of remaining silent?
You are saying we should cast our pearls before swine?

Side Note:

BTW ~ Calling somebody "dude" is disrespectful if you don't know the person.

Your putting your words in my mouth - stop that!

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

gordonhooker said:
Your putting your words in my mouth - stop that!

Seeing you did not reply to my post involving Scripture, I am assuming you simply just did not read it until now. For you did not address what I said and you simply insulted me. Your denial of what I said with Scripture led me to believe you did not regard it was relevant. Hence, why I asked you if it was relevant.

Also, asking a question is not the same thing as making an accusation. It's why I asked.

For example: I can ask you: Do you believe in chewing bubble gum? If you said, how dare you accuse me of choosing bubble gum! I would say that you are looking to be easily offended (instead of answering the question) if that was your reply.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

gordonhooker said:
Your putting your words in my mouth - stop that!

The article says,
" This is done by changing parts of the cognition to justify the stressful behavior, by adding new parts to the cognition that causes the psychological dissonance, or by actively avoiding social situations and contradictory information that are likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance."

Jesus several times actively avoided social situations. That does not mean He had a mental problem. So this is merely pycho babble that is not true or it is something that does not always apply. Also, it is against forum rules to flame. That is what you did with your posting here of my mental state. So please stop the personal attack, my friend. Stick to the topic at hand.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

Here is what it says in Hebrews 2 (with my commentary added in blue brackets).

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, [ My Comment: Jesus was made as a man who was lower than the angels and as a man he suffered death ] crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man [ My comment: Here we see again how Christ should died in the fact that he tasted death for every man which is only possible if he was a man ]." (Hebrews 2:9).

"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (Hebrews 2:10).

[ My Comment: Jesus can only suffer if he was a man.
He was made lower than the angels in the fact that he was a man and He died like a man for us; Thereby bringing in many sons unto glory. ]

Bible Highlighter · Nov 28, 2017

But do not be mistaken in the fact that Jesus was also GOD, too.

Here are 160 Reasons Jesus is God:

160 Reasons Jesus Christ is Almighty God

Bible Highlighter · Nov 29, 2017

Almost there said:
What is interesting is that that used to be my belief when people told me that is what I should believe. But a few decades of reading it has altered my perspective. For one thing, it never claims to be the word of God. It is simply inference on the part of some people. For another, there are places where it specifically says the particular words being written are not the word of God, but the writer's own words (Paul).

And people whining in Psalms are certainly not speaking "the word of God".

Again, I am not looking to convince you if you don't believe the Bible is God's Word. You already start out with a wrong presupposition that pulls the carpet out from under having faith in God's Word to begin with. Carry on with not believing the Bible is the Written Word of God. Nothing I post with Scripture is going to convince you. You first need to believe then you can see what God's Word is saying.

Strong in Him · Nov 30, 2017

I apologise for not reading all the replies in this thread; but the KJV is a translation of the Bible.
It was not the first translation to be made in English and, imo, it is not the best. Apart from anything else, as William Barclay says, The NT was written in Koine Greek. This was the language of the streets - almost slang; as people spoke at the time. No one could claim that the language of the KJV NT is how people speak today. Language has also changed since the KJV was made, as well as the discovery of further documents etc.

I've no doubt that some value the KJV highly and find it invaluable in their Christian life and walk.
Great; but some of us don't. Some of us are saved and able to serve God, be filled with his Spirit, love and worship him without ever reading the KJV.

Is the KJV more than a translation

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Franciscan tssf

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Franciscan tssf

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Franciscan tssf

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Great is thy faithfulness

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