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Hate Speech? | SpectrumBut from a twenty-first century vantage point, the The Great Controversy appears to be parochial in its reading of apocalyptic prophecies. At least as conventionally interpreted, the book freezes the future into a single, America-centered scenario, and this seems unacceptable for at least two reasons. First, human freedom (as with the people of Nineveh in Jonahs day) may confound expectation, even prophetic expectation. Second, apocalyptic poetry has a wider range of relevance than single-scenario interpretations allow.
But her restrictive reading of apocalyptic prophecy entails that The Great Controversy is no longer suitable as a simple hand-out, any more than anti-Catholic billboards are a suitable way for us to communicate with our neighbors.
The book repays a thoughtful reading, as I indicated above. But it has to be studied, especially now, in a more nuanced fashion than before. To read this book the old way, to single-out one offenderwithout fresh assessment of the biblical text, without new attention to the ever-changing contexthas become morally offensive. Given the knowledge we have now, and judging from the story I heard in Sabbath School, careless uses of this book have become a kind of hate speech.
YES!!! I thought the same thing... I mean he was there, but he danced around the obvious point, she was WRONG.... not only that but her last day scenario was/is seriously flawed and I would be embarrassed if I preached such foolishness...That article reminded me of another thought that I've often had, which is that Adventism's myopic focus on a prophetic end-time persecution based on what day people choose to attend church blinds many people to the persecution that has always happened and still happens in many countries, for many reasons. The Great Controversy does lead people into "unimaginative and, in the end, deeply damaging tunnel vision."
However, I can't agree with Scriven that "Ellen Whites best insights will continue to shed light, continue to guide us (if we allow it) toward a path of Christian faithfulness." While I think that she wrote some good things, I can't accept them as light sent from God to guide us because I also believe that she wrote many harmful things. It disturbs me that many Adventists, obviously even some who write for Spectrum, are so reluctant to admit that Ellen White was wrong; instead, Scriven says that The Great Controversy is being used carelessly and implies that it needs to be interpreted differently to make it more relevant to the 21st century. Honestly, EGW wrote what she meant, and if her teachings and predictions are no longer relevant, what's the point of continuing to cling to them for guidance?
most definitely... yet some people still refuse to study and see those beliefs for what they are.... tenuous at best and formulated during a time long gone...Yes, I do think that it's outdated, along with the IJ, the Sabbath as the end-time test of loyalty, the national Sunday law, the Adventist Church as the remnant church of Bible prophecy, etc. In fact, I think that most of the distinctive Adventist doctrines are nineteenth-century relics and that they are becoming increasingly less relevant the farther we get from Ellen White's time.
lol... well you don't have to reply to me if you don't feel like it, I think I have a good feel for where you are... the article on Spectrum I thought was pretty good, except the author didn't take that final step and admit in writing that the material was wrong... It amazes me though that you can still find people, educated people, doctors, Phd's, etc in the church who still believe and preach this stuff, I can't figure out why....They are also becoming increasingly less relevant to me personally the longer I am away from the Adventist organization. For several years, discussing them online was my way of working through a lot of those issues, and I often wished that I didn't even have to think about them. Now I don't think about them as often; in fact, I've grown weary of talking about them. When I do post on such topics these days, I usually end up regretting it because I don't feel like putting the effort into following up if people reply to my posts.
So well said. And, of course, this has been an ongoing point I've made about Christianity in general - although certainly not all of it. It's hyper-intense in Adventism.Adventism's myopic focus on a prophetic end-time persecution based on what day people choose to attend church blinds many people to the persecution that has always happened and still happens in many countries, for many reasons. The Great Controversy does lead people into "unimaginative and, in the end, deeply damaging tunnel vision."
Sophia, I'm thinking about all of my experiences in SDA schools and remembering how melodramatic it all was when it came to the "end times."
I do not miss all of those heart-wrenching plays about everyone getting tortured. They should have carried an "R" rating.
Now you've really done it. Memories flooding back of coming to terms with my seemingly loving and peaceful neighbors (Sunday folk) coming after me because we are Sabbath keepers! Yowzaa.I've seen some of those; I don't miss them either. I've also heard about kids playing an end-time game--an Adventist twist on "cops and robbers," I guess--in which some kids would pretend to be faithful Adventists, and others would pretend to be the "Sunday-keepers" who were going to torture them. I'm thankful that I never experienced that game as a child.
most definitely... yet some people still refuse to study and see those beliefs for what they are.... tenuous at best and formulated during a time long gone...
lol... well you don't have to reply to me if you don't feel like it, I think I have a good feel for where you are... the article on Spectrum I thought was pretty good, except the author didn't take that final step and admit in writing that the material was wrong... It amazes me though that you can still find people, educated people, doctors, Phd's, etc in the church who still believe and preach this stuff, I can't figure out why....
Now you've really done it. Memories flooding back of coming to terms with my seemingly loving and peaceful neighbors (Sunday folk) coming after me because we are Sabbath keepers! Yowzaa.
But this probably pales to the number of people sorting through the message of the "Left Behind" series.
Some of my local Baptists insist that persecution will come to them through hate speech and anti-discrimination legislation.
Many, many, many groups have some rationale for why in the end they will be the victim. It's interesting to me, though, how rarely anyone imagines that they will be the persecutors.
The Mormon church has a long history of being persecuted and marginalized in the US, and individual Mormons still experience that to one degree or another. But that doesn't stop the church from using its own weight to lobby against other marginalized groups or to persecute dissenters in its own ranks.
Adventism is no different in this regard.
I don't know about "strictly" -- Stormy can clarify what he would prefer.Except I thought we were talking strictly about the supposed end-time scenario of the passing of a Sunday law.
Except I thought we were talking strictly about the supposed end-time scenario of the passing of a Sunday law.
Yes, I do think that it's outdated, along with the IJ, the Sabbath as the end-time test of loyalty, the national Sunday law, the Adventist Church as the remnant church of Bible prophecy, etc. In fact, I think that most of the distinctive Adventist doctrines are nineteenth-century relics and that they are becoming increasingly less relevant the farther we get from Ellen White's time.
They are also becoming increasingly less relevant to me personally the longer I am away from the Adventist organization. For several years, discussing them online was my way of working through a lot of those issues, and I often wished that I didn't even have to think about them. Now I don't think about them as often; in fact, I've grown weary of talking about them. When I do post on such topics these days, I usually end up regretting it because I don't feel like putting the effort into following up if people reply to my posts.
I was reading the end time scenario in the GC about 30 years ago and then and there shut the book and haven't read EGW since. It seemed to be written by someone with a well developed persecution complex. As the years have passed the events have grown to be even more unlikely to happen. I have a hard time time understanding how people actually believe it. This and the unclean meat prohibition are the two main things that to me seem very obviously errant with traditional Adventist doctrine.
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