Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

GE:

I'm afraid not.

They just "put savings aside by themselves at home", on Sundays --- to keep business accounting out of Sabbaths' Assembling.

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That doesn't make sense. If it didn't mean to be collected on Sunday when they met, why would they set it aside on Sunday instead of any other day of the week, like say, Friday, your "preparation" day?

You're grasping at straws.

Let's close this very long discussion with this final proof, that the 4th commandment has not been done away with. Not by Christ, not by his disciples, not by the Scripture.

Whatever truth is presented, as small as it is, but it is a light that will lead you to a greater light.

Please study it with prayer, as this is the only text in the Scripture that sustains the 4th commandment and its Sabbath keeping for Christ' believers post the cross of Christ.

Matthew 24:1-3, 15, 20, 21.
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age. 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age? 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” 20. And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

One day, after a temple visit, sitting at the mount Olive in private with only his disciples and no other spectators, Jesus foretold how Jerusalem and the temple in particular would be destroyed and the signs of his second coming. The temple was destroyed in AD. 70 by Titus the Roman general and his army, 37 years after Jesus ascension to heaven.

The main important issue is Jesus saying: “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” What does Jesus has in mind?

Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple, and if this destruction happens at this day, many of them would have not the chance to safe themselves. Therefore they must pray that the destruction of the temple would not fall on Sabbath day, so they might escape and save their life.

This gives light to us, that the Sabbath keeping law is not nailed to the cross of Christ as many believes, that this 4th commandment exist and still an obligation for the disciples to keep it. It never crossed the disciples minds that the Sabbath keeping would ever be done away with, especially nailed to the cross, as many folks believe, which by believing so, they had made Jesus word meaningless.

Jesus himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, told his disciples without the presence of anyone else about an event that would happen 37 years after his ascension, and the same telling us, that his Sabbath was still in effect and lawful after his ascension. Imagine, if this disciples got their own disciples, would they not tell them the same, and if the destruction didn’t happen on AD. 70, and didn’t happen till now, wouldn’t all the disciples from generation to generation telling the same story?

Very clear, undeniable, the New testament Sabbath as according to the 4th commandment exist and lawful after Jesus ascension to heaven and till now and till the end of time, till eternity in heaven and the new world.

Jesus claimed himself as Lord of the Sabbath, the Lord God to whom his believers would worship him at that day in a holy convocation. Surely he wouldn’t be Lord of a day that would come to an end one day. He is God eternal, the day he claimed to be his day, should be eternal also, and not less than that.

Therefore, he clearly made a separation between Israeli sabbaths days and his own Sabath day, you can read this in Leviticus 23.

Leviticus 23:37, 38.
37 ‘These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38 besides the Sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.

And these feast days that should be observed almost similar as observing the Lord’s Sabbath day, God called it “your sabbath.” (verse 32).

This Israeli sabbath is not Sabbath of the Lord, this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17), but His Sabbath extent its existence till the end of time. Therefore, He is Lord of the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal.

And Paul knew it, he was a Sabbath keeper.

All his letters in the NT is about convincing his readers that the law of God is crucial to our salvation but not the thing that saved us, neither it's obedience. Only Jesus saved us, and by His grace He empowered us to overcome sin, so that we might be saved from sin. And the power of sin is the law. Keeping the law and fulfill it demands is fruit of the Spirit and God would justify you for your faith, but denying the law is a transgression, and it it sin, the wages of sin is death. These fact that Paul taught his reader all along his letters in the NT, only some people has misinterpreted it as Peter had warned already: as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. II. Peter 3:15, 16.

Arthur57 said:

Let's close this very long discussion with this final proof, that the 4th commandment has not been done away with. Not by Christ, not by his disciples, not by the Scripture.

Whatever truth is presented, as small as it is, but it is a light that will lead you to a greater light.

Please study it with prayer, as this is the only text in the Scripture that sustains the 4th commandment and its Sabbath keeping for Christ' believers post the cross of Christ.

Matthew 24:1-3, 15, 20, 21.
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age. 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age? 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” 20. And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

One day, after a temple visit, sitting at the mount Olive in private with only his disciples and no other spectators, Jesus foretold how Jerusalem and the temple in particular would be destroyed and the signs of his second coming. The temple was destroyed in AD. 70 by Titus the Roman general and his army, 37 years after Jesus ascension to heaven.

The main important issue is Jesus saying: “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” What does Jesus has in mind?

Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple, and if this destruction happens at this day, many of them would have not the chance to safe themselves. Therefore they must pray that the destruction of the temple would not fall on Sabbath day, so they might escape and save their life.

This gives light to us, that the Sabbath keeping law is not nailed to the cross of Christ as many believes, that this 4th commandment exist and still an obligation for the disciples to keep it. It never crossed the disciples minds that the Sabbath keeping would ever be done away with, especially nailed to the cross, as many folks believe, which by believing so, they had made Jesus word meaningless.

Jesus himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, told his disciples without the presence of anyone else about an event that would happen 37 years after his ascension, and the same telling us, that his Sabbath was still in effect and lawful after his ascension. Imagine, if this disciples got their own disciples, would they not tell them the same, and if the destruction didn’t happen on AD. 70, and didn’t happen till now, wouldn’t all the disciples from generation to generation telling the same story?

Very clear, undeniable, the New testament Sabbath as according to the 4th commandment exist and lawful after Jesus ascension to heaven and till now and till the end of time, till eternity in heaven and the new world.

.

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I will address only your first point right now. I will just ask this question of you. Would it be a sin for you to flee for your life on a Sabbath?

ricker said:

I will address only your first point right now. I will just ask this question of you. Would it be a sin for you to flee for your life on a Sabbath?

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As to me, it is not a sin, that it our right to save our life.

The point is as what is presented.

Arthur57 said:

.

As to me, it is not a sin, that it our right to save our life.

The point is as what is presented.

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So you believe the only reason Jesus said to pray the flight wouldn't be in winter or on the Sabbath is that "Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple". Could you explain that for me?

Jesus says they would flee. Why would the early Christians feel compelled to stay in the temple instead of fleeing? Is there any spritual or doctrinal reason they wouldn't have the right to save their own lives by fleeing on the Sabbath?

I submit there must be physical reasons their flight would be difficult on the Sabbath, as in the winter. You do know the majority of the Jews would still be keeping the Sabbath even after Jesus, don't you?

ricker said:

So you believe the only reason Jesus said to pray the flight wouldn't be in winter or on the Sabbath is that "Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple". Could you explain that for me?

Jesus says they would flee. Why would the early Christians feel compelled to stay in the temple instead of fleeing? Is there any spritual or doctrinal reason they wouldn't have the right to save their own lives by fleeing on the Sabbath?

I submit there must be physical reasons their flight would be difficult on the Sabbath, as in the winter. You do know the majority of the Jews would still be keeping the Sabbath even after Jesus, don't you?

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Maybe you are right, but better we are not looking for any other reason why Jesus indicates that His Sabbath, the 7th day Sabbath is still being kept after his ascension to heaven, which indicates and affirm that the 4th commandment still obligatory. Just take it, and do it!

Arthur57 said:

Maybe you are right, but better we are not looking for any other reason why Jesus indicates that His Sabbath, the 7th day Sabbath is still being kept after his ascension to heaven, which indicates and affirm that the 4th commandment still obligatory. Just take it, and do it!

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The fact that the Sabbath was still being kept after the resurrection of Jesus is not proof it is required of Christians. Jews and Christians don't believe all the same things now, and they didn't in 70 AD.

I don't think the issue is that we are trying to find a reason not to keep the Sabbath, I think the issue is why should we keep the Sabbath when it was expressly given as a sign and covenant to the nation of Israel (EX 31), and never said to be given to anyone else.

I know that you would come up with this, trying to deny what is crystal clear. Trying to deny and reject the truth of the Sabbath keeping obligation for Christ' disciples.

Why not accept what the truth is, and it will lead you to a bigger truth?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, Sabbath is made for man and not Israel for the Sabbath. And finally, his disciples must pray that the temple destruction will not fall on Sabbath day, indicating the continuation of Sabbath law for Christ disciples after the cross and his ascension to heaven.

If this could not convince you, then nothing could convince you. But it is up to you and God.

Arthur57 said:

I know that you would come up with this, trying to deny what is crystal clear. Trying to deny and reject the truth of the Sabbath keeping obligation for Christ' disciples.

Why not accept what the truth is, and it will lead you to a bigger truth?

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, Sabbath is made for man and not Israel for the Sabbath. And finally, his disciples must pray that the temple destruction will not fall on Sabbath day, indicating the continuation of Sabbath law for Christ disciples after the cross and his ascension to heaven.

If this could not convince you, then nothing could convince you. But it is up to you and God.

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Thank you for sharing your convictions. God bless!

ricker said:

The fact that the Sabbath was still being kept after the resurrection of Jesus is not proof it is required of Christians. Jews and Christians don't believe all the same things now, and they didn't in 70 AD.

I don't think the issue is that we are trying to find a reason not to keep the Sabbath, I think the issue is why should we keep the Sabbath when it was expressly given as a sign and covenant to the nation of Israel (EX 31), and never said to be given to anyone else.

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I think you overlooked reading this and the continuation in this thread and other similar thread.

Genesis 2:3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
For who did God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it?

Exodus 20:11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
For who did God blessed the 7th day, which is the Sabbath day and hallowed it?

For men! For Adam and Eve and their coming children.

It is ridiculous to think and belief that Sabbath is for the Jews only. Why God should blessed and sanctified a day and at the week of creation with the intention to keep it till one day , 2,400 years later, there is a tribe or nation called Jews and give it to them to be their holy day? The Jews was sinful men, so, was it God intention to keep and give this day for the sinful men thousand years later after the week of creation? Was God hoping that the men he created in his likeness shall fall into sin?

There is no such thing! When God blessed and sanctified the 7th day, the Sabbath day, it was for Adam, Eve and their offspring, to be kept for eternity, without even having the slightest idea that this day is for the Jews one day. If they are still in Eden now, they still keep the Sabbath.

And 4,000 years later. What did the Son of Man say?

Mark 2:27.
27:And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

The Sabbath was made for man, since the week of creation, not for the Jews, this man is “Adam”. A man that God has created with his own hand. Yes, the Sabbath was for them, because they exist already.

If man was made for the Sabbath, then it is correct, the Sabbath was kept for the Jews that exist 2,400 years later. So, it says “Man (is made) for the Sabbath.”

Apparently you want to continue our discussion.

[=Arthur57;57446139]I think you overlooked reading this and the continuation in this thread and other similar thread.

Genesis 2:3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
For who did God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it?

Exodus 20:11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
For who did God blessed the 7th day, which is the Sabbath day and hallowed it?

For men! For Adam and Eve and their coming children.

It is ridiculous to think and belief that Sabbath is for the Jews only. Why God should blessed and sanctified a day and at the week of creation with the intention to keep it till one day , 2,400 years later, there is a tribe or nation called Jews and give it to them to be their holy day? The Jews was sinful men, so, was it God intention to keep and give this day for the sinful men thousand years later after the week of creation? Was God hoping that the men he created in his likeness shall fall into sin?

There is no such thing! When God blessed and sanctified the 7th day, the Sabbath day, it was for Adam, Eve and their offspring, to be kept for eternity, without even having the slightest idea that this day is for the Jews one day. If they are still in Eden now, they still keep the Sabbath.

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I know what you have written is what you believe, but it is not Biblical. There is no reference or indication of a weekly Sabbath until after the Exodus.

What I can't get over is Exodus 31.

The Sabbath

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.



When God gave the command to keep the weekly Sabbath it is obvious it was given as a sign and covenant to the Israelites and only them.. How could God give a sign and covenant exclusively to the nation of Israel if it was an observance already given to the whole world?

And 4,000 years later. What did the Son of Man say?

Mark 2:27.
27:And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

The Sabbath was made for man, since the week of creation, not for the Jews, this man is “Adam”. A man that God has created with his own hand. Yes, the Sabbath was for them, because they exist already.

If man was made for the Sabbath, then it is correct, the Sabbath was kept for the Jews that exist 2,400 years later. So, it says “Man (is made) for the Sabbath]

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Please read this in context and see that Jesus was not addressing the origions of the Sabbath, but its proper keeping. In context his audience was all Jewish and when he said for man, it would easily have been understood to mean for them, and not necessarily mankind. If the Pharisees had thought Jesus meant for all mankind,(which He didn't say), they would have raised quite a ruckus. The Sabbath obviously was a very important thing to them and Gentiles were unclean heathens.

What is more, in context Jesus compares Sabbath observance to when David ate shewbread when hungry, which is comparing it to a ceremonial law. He also said it was OK to rescue animals on the Sabbath. What moral command is it OK to break if we feel the need arises?

It is a shame to try to use an arguable at best verse in Mark to try to refute a perfectly clear and understandable passage in Exodus.

ricker said:

Apparently you want to continue our discussion.




I know what you have written is what you believe, but it is not Biblical. There is no reference or indication of a weekly Sabbath until after the Exodus.

What I can't get over is Exodus 31.

The Sabbath

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.



When God gave the command to keep the weekly Sabbath it is obvious it was given as a sign and covenant to the Israelites and only them.. How could God give a sign and covenant exclusively to the nation of Israel if it was an observance already given to the whole world?





Please read this in context and see that Jesus was not addressing the origions of the Sabbath, but its proper keeping. In context his audience was all Jewish and when he said for man, it would easily have been understood to mean for them, and not necessarily mankind. If the Pharisees had thought Jesus meant for all mankind,(which He didn't say), they would have raised quite a ruckus. The Sabbath obviously was a very important thing to them and Gentiles were unclean heathens.

What is more, in context Jesus compares Sabbath observance to when David ate shewbread when hungry, which is comparing it to a ceremonial law. He also said it was OK to rescue animals on the Sabbath. What moral command is it OK to break if we feel the need arises?

It is a shame to try to use an arguable at best verse in Mark to try to refute a perfectly clear and understandable passage in Exodus.

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You have presented your view and I'm mine.

I know I'm right, because I'm not looking the way you look at Exodus 13. If you follow my posts starting from the origin of Sabbath till Moses, then maybe you might think differently.

Also what Jesus said is a plain text that there is NO ISSUES at all that the 7th day Sabbath no longer kept and exist in its jurisdiction and obligation for Christ disciples after his ascension to heaven.

So, may God guide you.

Arthur57 said:

You have presented your view and I'm mine.

I know I'm right, because I'm not looking the way you look at Exodus 13. If you follow my posts starting from the origin of Sabbath till Moses, then maybe you might think differently.

Also what Jesus said is a plain text that there is NO ISSUES at all that the 7th day Sabbath no longer kept and exist in its jurisdiction and obligation for Christ disciples after his ascension to heaven.

So, may God guide you.

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How do you understand Exodus 31? The fact that the weekly Sabbath law given on the tablets of stone was a sign and covenant to Israel doesn't mean much to you? Could the command to love God or the commandment to not commit adultery be given as a sign and covenant? Were any of the other ten said to be a sign between God and the nation of Israel? Can a special covenant said to be between God and a specific people also apply to everybody?

Arthur57 said:

You have presented your view and I'm mine.

I know I'm right, because I'm not looking the way you look at Exodus 13. If you follow my posts starting from the origin of Sabbath till Moses, then maybe you might think differently.

Also what Jesus said is a plain text that there is NO ISSUES at all that the 7th day Sabbath no longer kept and exist in its jurisdiction and obligation for Christ disciples after his ascension to heaven.

So, may God guide you.

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Out of curiosity, what do make of the sabbatical year and the year of Jubilee?

ricker said:

How do you understand Exodus 31? The fact that the weekly Sabbath law given on the tablets of stone was a sign and covenant to Israel doesn't mean much to you? Could the command to love God or the commandment to not commit adultery be given as a sign and covenant? Were any of the other ten said to be a sign between God and the nation of Israel? Can a special covenant said to be between God and a specific people also apply to everybody?

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Exclusively Sabbath keeping is since Adam was created on the 6th day, for on the 7th day, God rested and blessed and made holy this day, in which Adam took his 1st Sabbath. The reason God established the Sabbath institution is for the man’ sake, and that means for Adam and his descendants, as a remembrance day of the creation of the world, that they too should rest from their labor and come to a private and holy convocation with God. So, when Christ said, that Sabbath is made for man, he really meant it, which means, Sabbath is for Adam, because Adam or man is the name God had given him.

From Adam till Moses, Methuselah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, were all righteous people before God, doing his commandments. And this mean, keeping his Sabbath as a rest day, a remembrance of the creation of the world and mankind, a blessed and holy convocation days, they were taught direct by Adam till his children and grandson orally face to face.

Until Joseph days in Egypt Israel was keeping the Sabbath as taught by their leaders and fore fathers, but after his death, hundred of years mixed living with this pagan people and especially with the raise of a hard and cruel Pharaoh, Israel start to forget the law of God, start to forget His Sabbath and became more and more accustomed to the Pagan practice. This needs the rise to warn them, and God sent Moses to Egypt.

And Moses had been sent to ask from Pharaoh that Israel might go away for:
1. To make sacrifice offering for God (Ex. 3:18)
2. To serve God (Ex. 7:16)
3. To keep the Sabbath (Ex. 16:23)

These rituals had been done by their ancestor since Adam, but now they had forgotten it and Moses was sent to set up again with Israel. The written code has not been given yet, means all these rituals was a common practice but forgotten mostly because of pagan custom had been absorbed and followed by Israel especially those of mixed marriage.

After their exodus, God made the law legal, by writing it on tablets of stone, and the ceremonial law on papers. It was for Israel God chosen people among mankind to carry out with his plan of salvation and their descendants for ever and Sabbath as a sign that they are God’s people and Him their God (Ezekiel 20:12,20).

God’s plan of salvation started from Eden and planed before the world had been created, which through special elected people (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) till Israel as a nation He had set as his chosen people to carry on with his plan of salvation, giving them ceremonial laws that is a shadow of Christ ministry on earth and the moral law as His standard of righteousness, in which Sabbath stands as a sign of eternal ownership, they are God’s people and He is their Creator.

But Israel has broken their covenant with God, and God raised a New Covenant with the children of Israel and Judah after “that time”, a time where the shadows met the body, a time where the real Sacrifice was offered. And we are the spiritual Israel, Christ believers, to whom God’s covenant is made, that he will wrote his law in our heart and put it in our mind, surely not the ceremonial laws, otherwise we must sacrificed lamb and goats again and again, but moral law, the law that reveals sin, the law written by his own finger on stone tablets, the Ten Commandments and since “that time” or the cross of Christ, this law would be written on His believers heart and in their minds, so that they might keep and do it and fulfills it righteous demands with the help of the Spirit, a walk after the Spirit and at the end, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them.

So, if anyone can’t see that Sabbath’s law is obligatory and has the full jurisdiction over mankind since Adam, Christ and till his second coming, to keep and perform it, then their future is bleak, with no hopes.

Arthur57 said:

After their exodus, God made the law legal, by writing it on tablets of stone, and the ceremonial law on papers. It was for Israel God chosen people among mankind to carry out with his plan of salvation and their descendants for ever and Sabbath as a sign that they are God’s people and Him their God (Ezekiel 20:12,20).

God’s plan of salvation started from Eden and planed before the world had been created, which through special elected people (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) till Israel as a nation He had set as his chosen people to carry on with his plan of salvation, giving them ceremonial laws that is a shadow of Christ ministry on earth and the moral law as His standard of righteousness, in which Sabbath stands as a sign of eternal ownership, they are God’s people and He is their Creator.

But Israel has broken their covenant with God, and God raised a New Covenant with the children of Israel and Judah after “that time”, a time where the shadows met the body, a time where the real Sacrifice was offered. And we are the spiritual Israel, Christ believers, to whom God’s covenant is made, that he will wrote his law in our heart and put it in our mind, surely not the ceremonial laws, otherwise we must sacrificed lamb and goats again and again, but moral law, the law that reveals sin, the law written by his own finger on stone tablets, the Ten Commandments and since “that time” or the cross of Christ, this law would be written on His believers heart and in their minds, so that they might keep and do it and fulfills it righteous demands with the help of the Spirit, a walk after the Spirit and at the end, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them.

So, if anyone can’t see that Sabbath’s law is obligatory and has the full jurisdiction over mankind since Adam, Christ and till his second coming, to keep and perform it, then their future is bleak, with no hopes.

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This is a well written statement of your beliefs. I think some of the assertions would be hard to prove Biblically, but I'm sure you think they make perfect sense. We probably make too much of our differences and don't embrace our similarities enough.

May God bless you. It must be kind of interesting being a Christian in Jakarta!

To share what I believe is the truth of the Gospel of Christ, here is a summary of proof that the 7th day Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment still exist, obligatory for Christians.


1. Matthew 24:15-21.
Here is the plain teaching of Christ that Sabbath never ended at His cross.

2. Mark 2:27,28.
Here Jesus teaches us the origin of Sabbath, it was established after man was created in Eden, at the 7th day of Creation and given to Adam (man) to be kept by him and his descendant forever. Sabbath is for Adam (man), and not man for the Sabbath, stressing Sabbath is not for Israel.
He also teaches us that He is Lord of the Sabbath and not of other day. A day of rest and holy convocation to be remembered and kept for eternity as He is eternal. By this giving His eternal seal on this day for its validity.

3. Exodus 20:8-11.
The 4th commandment, stating why the Sabbath was created, which is a holy convocation day to remember that mankind have a God Almighty their Creator that created this world in six days, and He rested on the 7th day, blessed and hallowed this day for them, that they too might enter His rest with Him.

4. Deuteronomy 5:12-15.
The 4th commandment repeated, but stressing in the work of God that released them from the slavery of Egypt. Pointing out to the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth, releasing men from the slavery of sin and death.

5. Hebrews 4:9.
The 7th day Sabbath remains open to invite whoever believe to enter God rest, and have their own rest from labor and sin. To remember God their Creator that created them in six days and to remember Christ that released them from the slavery of sin with his death.

6. Ezekiel 20:12,20.
God’s seal upon Sabbath keepers, they are His people and He is their God. This statement is not only for Israel (Since Sabbath is not created for Israel), but also for all Sabbath keepers, covering those who keep it since Adam till the day Jesus comes to pick up his people.

May God guides you to all the truth.

Arthur57 said:

To share what I believe is the truth of the Gospel of Christ, here is a summary of proof that the 7th day Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment still exist, obligatory for Christians.


1. Matthew 24:15-21.
Here is the plain teaching of Christ that Sabbath never ended at His cross.

2. Mark 2:27,28.
Here Jesus teaches us the origin of Sabbath, it was established after man was created in Eden, at the 7th day of Creation and given to Adam (man) to be kept by him and his descendant forever. Sabbath is for Adam (man), and not man for the Sabbath, stressing Sabbath is not for Israel.
He also teaches us that He is Lord of the Sabbath and not of other day. A day of rest and holy convocation to be remembered and kept for eternity as He is eternal. By this giving His eternal seal on this day for its validity.

3. Exodus 20:8-11.
The 4th commandment, stating why the Sabbath was created, which is a holy convocation day to remember that mankind have a God Almighty their Creator that created this world in six days, and He rested on the 7th day, blessed and hallowed this day for them, that they too might enter His rest with Him.

4. Deuteronomy 5:12-15.
The 4th commandment repeated, but stressing in the work of God that released them from the slavery of Egypt. Pointing out to the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth, releasing men from the slavery of sin and death.

5. Hebrews 4:9.
The 7th day Sabbath remains open to invite whoever believe to enter God rest, and have their own rest from labor and sin. To remember God their Creator that created them in six days and to remember Christ that released them from the slavery of sin with his death.

6. Ezekiel 20:12,20.
God’s seal upon Sabbath keepers, they are His people and He is their God. This statement is not only for Israel (Since Sabbath is not created for Israel), but also for all Sabbath keepers, covering those who keep it since Adam till the day Jesus comes to pick up his people.

May God guides you to all the truth.

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Interesting you should use Ezekiel 20 for a proof we should keep the Sabbath, as I would use it as yet another indication that the Sabbath didn't exist until after the Exodus, and was given ony to Israel as a ceremonial sign.


"10"So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
11"I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12"Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them."

Isn't it strange two people can look at the same passage and come to completely different conclusions?

ricker said:

Interesting you should use Ezekiel 20 for a proof we should keep the Sabbath, as I would use it as yet another indication that the Sabbath didn't exist until after the Exodus, and was given ony to Israel as a ceremonial sign.


"10"So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
11"I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12"Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them."

Isn't it strange two people can look at the same passage and come to completely different conclusions?

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You keep saying that Sabbath keeping didn't exist until after Exodus, which mean you keep believing that Sabbath law is exclusively for Israel, although I presented with Scripture support that Sabbath was established in Eden for Adam.

What is the point that God established Sabbath in Eden and then saying to Israel that this is for them 2,300 years later? It doesn't make sense right? And if Jesus said that Sabbath is for man and not man for the Sabbath, some one can not stick to his idea that Sabbath is for Israel.

Sabbath is for man. Adam created at the 6th day, Sabbath established at the 7th day. This mean Sabbath is for man, who exist previously.

So, let's go your idea that Sabbath is only for Israel, it is not supported by the Scripture and logic.