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I guess your right on that. They just received offerings on Sundays.GE:
Wrong assumption!
Bare fact is,
Christians during the Apostles' time, gathered together to worship and praise God on Sabbaths and not once on Sundays.
I don't follow what you seem to be saying. Can you be plainer. It seems you're saying that Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath and yet rested-up to. I don't know what He did by your explanation.GE:
I need just one Scripture? You are generous! Thanks!
There in fact is only ONE TRUTH which shows that the Sabbath is the Lord's Day. And many texts of course....
The single truth is, Jesus rose from the dead "when suddenly there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord from heaven descending hurled way the stone from the sepulchre."
That happened on the day and in the moment and event whereby "the LORD on the Seventh Day REVIVED", that is, "RESTED-UP". Exodus 31:17 Isaiah 57:15.
You can monitor this information against Matthew 28:1 KJV.
You could also weigh this evidence against many other things, like Jesus' own teachings and deeds, and the subsequent practice of the Body of Christ's Own.
Is the 4th part of the covenant or not?GE:
How do you place Jer 31:31-34 in the same category as Hosea 2:11? Jeremiah speaks about the Sabbaths of the LORD GOD; Hosea 2, of Israel's 'sabbaths'.
You see, Israel did exactly what the Christian Church does; they instituted their own 'sabbaths' and claimed they were the LORD'S. Like Christianity corrupted passover into 'Easter', and the Sabbath into Sunday.
I have commented on this question in another thread here, similar to this topic, and put it here to add my view against the Ten Cs and 4th commandment in particular.
"Why would I need the 10 Cs if I am walking by the Spirit?"
This is a question that I have seen in so many brothers of Christ in this forum and others.
We can think of everything to suit our judgment, but what the bible said is the truth.
Romans 8:3,4.
3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. 4.That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What the Law could not do is JUSTIFYING US FOR OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. What the Law can only do is CONDEMNING US FOR OUR SINS.
Why? Because,
Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
And since all men has sinned and fall short of the glory of God, the whole world came under the law’s condemnation (Romans 3:9-12, 19, 23).
Only if we live by the Spirit, walk by the Spirit, the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. And only “if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (condemnation) – Galatians 5:18.
So, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?
This question has been answered above, that only by walking after the Spirit the righteousness of the law of the might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the lust of the flesh. Otherwise, the law could only condemn us for our sins.
What is the righteousness of the law? LOVE.
Described in two moral obligation – love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39).
A summary of engraved commandments on stone tablets by God’s own finger, and by doing what is written there, a man has fulfilled the legal aspect of the law and when it was done under the leading of the Spirit by faith, the spiritual aspect has been fulfilled too. These are the righteous demands of the law: Doing the legal aspect and fulfilling the spiritual demand. When you did it, you have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you. And only those who walk after the Spirit can have this perfect righteousness.
This where the young man in Matthew 19:16-22 failed. He had done the legal aspect but failed to fulfill the spiritual demand, because he loved his possessions more.
How can a believer claim that he loves God, that he walks after the Spirit, if he bows and worships a golden calf, like the Israeli before? How can a believer claim that he walks after the Spirit, if he commits adultery? And the list goes on – how can a believer claim that he has faith in Christ, that he walks after the Spirit, if only the works of the flesh is manifested? How can a believer claim that he loves God that he walks after the Spirit, when he trampled on God’s holy Sabbath, rejecting and denying the 4th commandment?
So, again, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?
The answer is obvious! Yes! Because the law’s jurisdiction is still above Christ’ believers head and to fulfill its righteousness is an obligation. Therefore we understood what Christ said: If you love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15.
Walking after the Spirit is an act of faith, and what Paul said: Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31.
We establish the law! Is it by nailing it to the cross? Is it by keeping another law, the law of man, the tradition of man to worship God at another day and broke his 4th commandment? No! It is by doing what the law demands, as to the letter and fulfills the spiritual demand.
========================
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Matthew 6:33.
An argument for the fool. You said your arguments was against the 10 Cs and the sabbath. Yet I read support for them both. Uncle!I have commented on this question in another thread here, similar to this topic, and put it here to add my view against the Ten Cs and 4th commandment in particular.
"Why would I need the 10 Cs if I am walking by the Spirit?"
This is a question that I have seen in so many brothers of Christ in this forum and others.
We can think of everything to suit our judgment, but what the bible said is the truth.
Romans 8:3,4.
3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. 4.That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What the Law could not do is JUSTIFYING US FOR OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. What the Law can only do is CONDEMNING US FOR OUR SINS.
Why? Because,
Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
And since all men has sinned and fall short of the glory of God, the whole world came under the laws condemnation (Romans 3:9-12, 19, 23).
Only if we live by the Spirit, walk by the Spirit, the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. And only if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (condemnation) Galatians 5:18.
So, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?
This question has been answered above, that only by walking after the Spirit the righteousness of the law of the might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the lust of the flesh. Otherwise, the law could only condemn us for our sins.
What is the righteousness of the law? LOVE.
Described in two moral obligation love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39).
A summary of engraved commandments on stone tablets by Gods own finger, and by doing what is written there, a man has fulfilled the legal aspect of the law and when it was done under the leading of the Spirit by faith, the spiritual aspect has been fulfilled too. These are the righteous demands of the law: Doing the legal aspect and fulfilling the spiritual demand. When you did it, you have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you. And only those who walk after the Spirit can have this perfect righteousness.
This where the young man in Matthew 19:16-22 failed. He had done the legal aspect but failed to fulfill the spiritual demand, because he loved his possessions more.
How can a believer claim that he loves God, that he walks after the Spirit, if he bows and worships a golden calf, like the Israeli before? How can a believer claim that he walks after the Spirit, if he commits adultery? And the list goes on how can a believer claim that he has faith in Christ, that he walks after the Spirit, if only the works of the flesh is manifested? How can a believer claim that he loves God that he walks after the Spirit, when he trampled on Gods holy Sabbath, rejecting and denying the 4th commandment?
So, again, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?
The answer is obvious! Yes! Because the laws jurisdiction is still above Christ believers head and to fulfill its righteousness is an obligation. Therefore we understood what Christ said: If you love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15.
Walking after the Spirit is an act of faith, and what Paul said: Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31.
We establish the law! Is it by nailing it to the cross? Is it by keeping another law, the law of man, the tradition of man to worship God at another day and broke his 4th commandment? No! It is by doing what the law demands, as to the letter and fulfills the spiritual demand.
========================
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Matthew 6:33.
Perhaps I've been arguing the wrong way by answering your question the way you want it answered.Is the fourth commandment done away with?
NO, AND NEVER!
THE 4TH COMMANDMENT STANDS FOREVER, TO BE A DAY OF REST AND BLESSING FOR THE REDEEMED IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH.
I challenged anyone who can PROOF with the Scripture that the 4th commandment has been done away with!! That the 4th commandment has no longer jurisdiction over Christ' believers.
Then why did you bring it up in the first place? Especially asking question.I'm waiting GE reply, because I commented on his statement, I don't want to open an Off topic statement in this thread. If you want to know what my version is, better you open another thread.
An argument for the fool. You said your arguments was against the 10 Cs and the sabbath. Yet I read support for them both. Uncle!
Perhaps I've been arguing the wrong way by answering your question the way you want it answered.
It isn't that the sabbath has been done away as Saturday is still with us and thare are still 7 days in our week. The real issue is obilgation to the sabbath. And under the NC the Christian isn't obligated. This goes for both Jew and Gentile. There is no requirement to not keep/observe it either. Paul says to let no one condemn for either way.
I guess your right on that. They just received offerings on Sundays.
I don't follow what you seem to be saying. Can you be plainer. It seems you're saying that Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath and yet rested-up to. I don't know what He did by your explanation.
I....................
"Why would I need the 10 Cs if I am walking by the Spirit?"[/B]
..................................
......................................
We establish the law! Is it by nailing it to the cross? Is it by keeping another law, the law of man, the tradition of man to worship God at another day and broke his 4th commandment? No! It is by doing what the law demands, as to the letter and fulfills the spiritual demand.
..........................................
GE:
The truth of truths "concerning the Seventh Day", "Sabbath of the LORD GOD", is :
that "ON THE SABBATH", Jesus Christ because He did His Fathers Pleasure on Gods Holy Day and called the Sabbath his delight "rested-up" and ROSE FROM THE DEAD God HAVING "caused (Him) to RIDE THE HIGH PLACES OF THE EARTH".
Jesus did NOT rise from the dead on the First Day of the week.
It is written "God on the Seventh Day REVIVED". It is written indeed, "In the Sabbath's fullness being-mid-daylight BEFORE the First Day of the week, there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descending from heaven cast away the stone from the grave."
THAT!
NOT Justin Martyr's corruption that it was after the day of Saturn on the day of the sun.
The day of judgment shall decide who lies and who speaks the truth. Meanwhile I offer myself for a toffee; i'm prepared to be chewed. Let anyone try.
GE:
Do 'we establish the law ... by nailing it to the cross?'
IN ACTUAL FACT, _YES_!
Do 'we establish the law ... by keeping another law?'
unconditionally, _NO_!
Perhaps I've been arguing the wrong way by answering your question the way you want it answered.
It isn't that the sabbath has been done away as Saturday is still with us and thare are still 7 days in our week. The real issue is obilgation to the sabbath. And under the NC the Christian isn't obligated. This goes for both Jew and Gentile. There is no requirement to not keep/observe it either. Paul says to let no one condemn for either way.
.GE:
I'm afraid not.
They just "put savings aside by themselves at home", on Sundays --- to keep business accounting out of Sabbaths' Assembling.
OK, where did you get this from? It appears to be cobbled together.GE:
The truth of truths "concerning the Seventh Day", "Sabbath of the LORD GOD", is :
that "ON THE SABBATH", Jesus Christ because He did His Father’s Pleasure on God’s Holy Day and called the Sabbath his delight "rested-up" and ROSE FROM THE DEAD— God HAVING "caused (Him) to RIDE THE HIGH PLACES OF THE EARTH".
You have to be calling our Saturday night the sabbath. Which it isn't. Sunset Saturday ends the sabbath and it then is the first day of the week having aproximately 24 hours. The day vairied in length according to the seasons at least as far north as I live.Jesus did NOT rise from the dead on the First Day of the week.
Is this per chance quoted The Clear Word? I don't seem to find such wording anywhere.It is written "God on the Seventh Day REVIVED". It is written indeed, "In the Sabbath's fullness being-mid-daylight BEFORE the First Day of the week, there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descending from heaven cast away the stone from the grave."
THAT!
NOT Justin Martyr's corruption that it was after the day of Saturn on the day of the sun.
The day of judgment shall decide who lies and who speaks the truth. Meanwhile I offer myself for a toffee; i'm prepared to be chewed. Let anyone try.
Nice, er well a discussion of Hebrews. What do you make of Mat 11:28-30? Was Jesus offering them something they already had? I really don't think so. Jesus is my sabbath rest (sabbatismos) that the COI couldn't ever enter into.GE:
And you go on keeping alive the debate enticing the participants to answer in the way you want them to answer.
Like with this very statement of yours. Clever, I must admit. VERY clever!
“It isn't that the sabbath has been done away as Saturday is still with us and thare are still 7 days in our week.” And who would argue your ‘point’? You knew, nobody.
“The real issue is obligation to the sabbath.” Another clever, disguised swindle. “Obligation to the sabbath” is not the issue at all. Nobody believer or unbeliever is under obligation to the Sabbath. Everybody as a believer is under obligation to his Lord, “Lord also of the Sabbath”. “If Jesus had given them (believers) rest (in their souls and righteousness in heaven through Christ) seeing God will never after these things (of salvation in Jesus Christ) speak of another day (of opportunity to soften the heart and open the ears)— THERE THEREFORE (UNDER CHRIST)
REMAINS OBLIGATORY FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD –_KEEPING OF THE SABBATH DAY_”. “The real issue is obligation to the sabbath” because Jesus Christ in it “having entered in into his own rest”, “rested from all his own works as God in his own.” ALL the believer’s ‘obligation’ or loyalty, stems from and ends in Jesus Christ’s obligation and obedience to obligation. Christ’s loyalty to and fulfillment of God’s Law are the Christian’s every reason and motive and aim for accepting, and by accepting, obligation and loyalty to the Lord of his heart and life.
“THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY” and SABBATH, it is Jesus’ RESURRECTION from the dead, that is the individual Christian’s as well as the Christian “PEOPLE’S”, SOLE initiative and motivating force in “MAINTAINED OBLIGATION of keeping of the Sabbath Day” – (‘apoleipetai sabbatismos’.
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