Is the Cross an Idol???

Quijote · Jun 9, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
That,s praise to God. Thats different than wipping out your little prayer book and reading a prayer. while making the symbol of the cross on your chest and bowing in front of a statue of a very white blue eyed Jesus. That is the catholic way and that is repition. Jesus did go and pray three times but he had good reason too and the subject was the same but I doubt he said it word for word everytime.

lol, it does not matter if you doubt that Jesus said it the prayer word for word everytime, what matters is what Matthew 26:44 says: 44And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more. As plain as the nose in your face

And, as the Bible proves to you, all repetition is not vain repetition. You don't get to decide what vain repetition is, the Bible does.

Logicalthinker · Jun 9, 2005

Quijote said:
If what you say is true. What happened to the Church that Christ started with Peter and that had the promise that: and the gates of (P)Hades will not overpower it.? Are you suggesting that Christ did not keep his promise?

lol, so if the Bible does not agree with your beliefs it's because the Catholic church took over the "editing" from Gutenberg?

I wonder where Gutenber got a hold of a copy of the Bible to set his printing press on? I wonder where he got a copy of the Bible in German? I wonder how the Bible survived from the time of St. John's dead to Gutenberg's creating the movable printing press?

The Catholic Church preserved it.

No he cept his promise. He is the corner stone to the foundation of the church. Like I said why does the catholic faith not mirror the church of Peter. It is completely different. They are as much different as a car and a bike. they both roll and have tires thats the only thing that is the same.

Quijote · Jun 9, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
Quijote said:

Sure, Revelation 5:8:

8When He had taken the book, the (A)four living creatures and the (B)twenty-four elders (C)fell down before the (D)Lamb, each one holding a (E)harp and (F)golden bowls full of incense, which are the (G)prayers of the saints.

Click to expand...

Those are the prayers from the saints not prayers to the saints. And notice they all fell down before the lamb. not the lamb falling down to them.
So Why do you pray to saints?

Yes, the prayers are FROM the Saints TO God. We pray to the Saints so that they may bring those prayers TO God. Why would you assume that the Saints are praying to themselves?

logicalthinker said:
So do you pray to mother Teresa? I mean she's a saint now. Although we all saw that she was nothing more than a compasionate human.

Lol, mother Theresa is not a saint yet Though she will be soon!

locigcalthinker said:
When will you start praying to John Paul II. When will you start praying to that MAN

hmm....Am I wrong in stating that you don't know what Catholics mean by saying "I'm praying to Saint So-and-So for help"? Do you?

cheers

Logicalthinker · Jun 9, 2005

This has been a great debate. Sorry for attacking the catholic faith it was not my intention when starting the thread. I am clearly convinced now that people want their crosses and that is fine. I will continue not to have one, but that is for me. You are all very intelligent and have gave me great food for thought. Thank you.

God Bless and may Jesus lead us all in a straight path.

Quijote · Jun 9, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
No he cept his promise. He is the corner stone to the foundation of the church. Like I said why does the catholic faith not mirror the church of Peter. It is completely different. They are as much different as a car and a bike. they both roll and have tires thats the only thing that is the same.

But if you claim that 1) the Catholic church is not the church that Jesus established on Peter and that 2) Jesus kept his promise that "the Gates of Hades will not prevail against it [the church founded on Peter]" then, where has the true church been all these years? why there is no record of it? how do we know that what any Christian believes now is the truth? how do we know that the Bible is the word of God since its cannon was not finished until after the "Church of ROme" was "established"?

cheers

NothingButTheBlood · Jun 9, 2005

I thought Christ was pretty clear one of the reasons he came was to give us an intercessor to God, Him. I have never seen or read anything that says we are to pray to anyone or thing but God and that was ask in Jesus name, not anyone else. I also always thought that when referring to the Saints he meant any saved person.

Quijote · Jun 9, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
This has been a great debate. Sorry for attacking the catholic faith it was not my intention when starting the thread. I am clearly convinced now that people want their crosses and that is fine. I will continue not to have one, but that is for me. You are all very intelligent and have gave me great food for thought. Thank you.

God Bless and may Jesus lead us all in a straight path.

Thank you for your kind words.

I too have enjoyed our discussion. I would agree that wearing/owning a cross is not relevant to our salvation.

Yours in Christ.

Quijote

Is the Cross an Idol???

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