Is the Cross an Idol???

Logicalthinker said:

Let me put it in perspective. If the weapon of choice in Rome was an AK-47 and Jesus got mowed down in a hail of bullets. Would there be AK-47s on all church tops. Would people instead of having crosses depicting Jesus dying on it have a mosaic of him being shot down by Romans. Would there be tiny little gold AK-47s on chains around peoples necks. Than would you go to church and instead of making the sign of the cross on your chest, you act like your holding a machine gun and give a RAT-TAT-TAT before walking in.

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Logicalthinker said:

I have a logical way to look at items to see if they're Idols. You just ask yourself. Would Jesus do that? Pretty simple question that I try to apply to my life. I typed up my point of view on the cross. I don't want anyone angry I'm just trying to find a bottom to this issue. I believe in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the sacrifice he made for the whole world. This is the way I view the cross.

Jesus was killed in the most horrific way imaginable and not only him but hundreds if not thousands of people before him. Probably some after him. The point I'm making is that Jesus never said he wanted a symbol (Idol) to honor him and if he did would he have picked the device that killed him. Let me put it in perspective. If the weapon of choice in Rome was an AK-47 and Jesus got mowed down in a hail of bullets. Would there be AK-47s on all church tops. Would people instead of having crosses depicting Jesus dying on it have a mosaic of him being shot down by Romans. Would there be tiny little gold AK-47s on chains around peoples necks. Than would you go to church and instead of making the sign of the cross on your chest, you act like your holding a machine gun and give a RAT-TAT-TAT before walking in.
Than you must ask yourself the question that all Christians should ask themselves. Would Jesus do that?
Would Jesus give thanks for food-Yes,
Would Jesus smack someone down-No,
Would Jesus help the needy-Yes,
Would Jesus bow down to a CROSS-No
No I don't think he would bow down to a torturous killing device that had just killed him. Would You?

We are intelligent people and I feel we have all been deceived by Satan to bow down to Idols. Just like the Israelites, when Moses left to make the Ten Commandments. You better believe that Satan was sitting right there and may have tricked them by wispering in their ears, "Make a calf to worship your god, thats what he would want." All Christians should ask themselves, Would Jesus do That? Would Jesus bow to the statue of St.Peter and Pray. Like I said when you say it that way you can't help but see the truth.

Please give me your thoughts on this. Sorry if it offended anyone. I'm a to the point kind of person.

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Zaac said:

I don't know about other denominations, but in Baptist realms, the Cross is just a reminder of what Jesus Christ did and it is worn and displayed as such.

It is NOT an item of worship, but a reminder of WHO and WHY we worship.

So in that regard, the Cross is not an idol. Idols are worshipped.

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Quijote said:

I know you asked a serious question, but the mental images of what you typed above had me ROTFL Where could I get a little gold AK-47 to wear?


cheers

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Logicalthinker said:

I'm sorry for the mental pictures, What happened to him was not pretty. It was worse than being killed instantly by gun fire. He was tortured on a device that killed thousands. Does the cross honor them too. Like I said Jesus won't hold it against some one for not believeing in the cross, But he might for an idol or somthing you pray to.

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Logicalthinker said:

Ok, but ask the question Would Jesus do that? Would Jesus were the device that killed him around his neck. I would not where something that killed me.

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The cross didn't kill Jesus. WE killed Him.

He told us to take communion in remembrance of Him. We are baptized to show that we follow Him. People were circumcised to show that they were in a covenant with Him. I just can't see why Jesus would have any problem with the waering of something that reminded us of what He did anymore than He would have a problem with Communion tables engraved with "This done in remembrance of me."

Jesus gave us the gospels to be able to look at the world through his eyes. Now Satan being the master chess player he is could have planted this seed. Plus another thing is how many people wear it to just look cool like the rappers that have $100,000 plus diamond crosses to wear.

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You're mixing uses. There are indeed lots of folks who wear the cross as a fashion statement. But as a Christian, the cross is simply a reminder of what Jesus did at THE cross.

If Jesus won't do it than Christians should not do it.

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Jesus has ALREADY worn the cross. So is there anything Biblically wrong with saying we wear the cross as a reminder of the cross Jesus has already borne for us?

Would Jesus come out of heaven and put a cross on?

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Why? He's already borne the cross. I ask again, what is Biblically wrong with wearing a cross in remembrance that Jesus bore the cross for Us?

Last thing Jesus won't hold it against me if I don't believe in the cross, because I believe in him and that he died for our sins.

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what do you mean you don't believe in the Cross???

But if I'm right, he will hold against the people that did believe in the cross.

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Why? We are simply wearing a cross in remembrance of the cross He wore.

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coyoteBR said:

Good points, Logical.
Personally, I don't like crosses, too... I guess I prefer to emphasys on the Life of Christ, on His Teachings. A living, talking Jesus, Master, Friend, Advisor. Someone Who we can learn With, we can aim to Follow.

The cross, in my opinion, gives nothing of this.

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Zaac said:

Logicalthinker said:

Why? We are simply wearing a cross in remembrance of the cross He wore.

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I really don't understand this cross-wearing stuff. Especially when they are made from precious metals encased in diamonds and the like. I thought Jesus said to take only two rough garments of clothing and a pair of sandals, and follow him.

Look. Jesus was homeless, ok? He didn't own a house, or a mule, and didn't have a job. The cross in current use is merely to indicate a social group, like waving a flag, or putting on a jersey. God knows his own. If you want to be reminded of his sacrifice, just look around...dead things decomposing, giving nutrients back to plants so that we may eat and be satisfied and then die ourselves so others may eat. Beef dies in the slaughterhouse, has communion with the expecting mother at dinner, and is reborn in her child.

The cross is a symbol to be contemplated, not a great bloody sculpture to be held high and defended. I mean, with the whole race issue, and whatnot, Jesus has to look a certain way, and how bloody should we make his clothes? Should he have a look of anguish or peace? How long was his hair, and what color...ad nauseam, until we are more concerned with how our church looks, and how our cross looks that we ignore the whole point of observing god in everything in every moment.

It degenerates into a competition between brothers for who god loves best.

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Zaac said:

Logicalthinker said:

The cross didn't kill Jesus. WE killed Him.

He told us to take communion in remembrance of Him. We are baptized to show that we follow Him. People were circumcised to show that they were in a covenant with Him. I just can't see why Jesus would have any problem with the waering of something that reminded us of what He did anymore than He would have a problem with Communion tables engraved with "This done in remembrance of me."



You're mixing uses. There are indeed lots of folks who wear the cross as a fashion statement. But as a Christian, the cross is simply a reminder of what Jesus did at THE cross.



Jesus has ALREADY worn the cross. So is there anything Biblically wrong with saying we wear the cross as a reminder of the cross Jesus has already borne for us?



Why? He's already borne the cross. I ask again, what is Biblically wrong with wearing a cross in remembrance that Jesus bore the cross for Us?



what do you mean you don't believe in the Cross???



Why? We are simply wearing a cross in remembrance of the cross He wore.

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What if like in my story it was an AK-47. Would you wear one of those. How about a gilatine, Spear, Canon, C4, mustard gas or noose. in honor of him. When I say it this way it sounds barbaric, but really there is no difference. The cross killed people. I bet if you were to pick up a cross the day after he died and started wearing it. The people that believed in him would be upset because they would want you to believe in the way he lived. When a loved one dies we always say lets remember how they lived not how they died.

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coyoteBR said:

Good points, Logical.
Personally, I don't like crosses, too... I guess I prefer to emphasys on the Life of Christ, on His Teachings. A living, talking Jesus, Master, Friend, Advisor. Someone Who we can learn With, we can aim to Follow.

The cross, in my opinion, gives nothing of this.

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ImmortalTechnique said:

the crosses people wear don't even look like the cross that people were crucifed on back then. it was shaped more like a T. The cross figure is yet another pagan intrusion into Christian worship that happened when early Christianity was spreading and mixed with a lot of pagan worship forms and symbolism.

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Zaac said:

Logicalthinker said:

He told us to take communion in remembrance of Him. We are baptized to show that we follow Him. People were circumcised to show that they were in a covenant with Him. I just can't see why Jesus would have any problem with the waering of something that reminded us of what He did anymore than He would have a problem with Communion tables engraved with "This done in remembrance of me."

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Notice Jesus did things of the spirit and body. Never using trinkets or things to represent him.

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Aalbiel said:

Zaac said:

I really don't understand this cross-wearing stuff. Especially when they are made from precious metals encased in diamonds and the like. I thought Jesus said to take only two rough garments of clothing and a pair of sandals, and follow him.

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I really don't understand why ya'll are making such a big deal about people acknowledging what Jesus did on the cross. Would it mean any less if people were wearing wooden crosses?

Look. Jesus was homeless, ok? He didn't own a house, or a mule, and didn't have a job. The cross in current use is merely to indicate a social group, like waving a flag, or putting on a jersey.

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That's opinion. As I said before, it serves as a reminder and is not serving as anything else in the true Body of Christ other than a reminder of what He did.

God knows his own. If you want to be reminded of his sacrifice, just look around...dead things decomposing, giving nutrients back to plants so that we may eat and be satisfied and then die ourselves so others may eat. Beef dies in the slaughterhouse, has communion with the expecting mother at dinner, and is reborn in her child

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.

Sounds like you just have an aversion to crosses cause the same reasons that people have given for not wearing a cross can be put forth for looking at dead things.

The cross is a symbol to be contemplated, not a great bloody sculpture to be held high and defended.

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And in the true body of Christ, that's all it is. A symbol of what Jesus Christ has done.

I mean, with the whole race issue, and whatnot, Jesus has to look a certain way, and how bloody should we make his clothes? Should he have a look of anguish or peace? How long was his hair, and what color...ad nauseam, until we are more concerned with how our church looks, and how our cross looks that we ignore the whole point of observing god in everything in every moment.

It degenerates into a competition between brothers for who god loves best.[/

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Zaac said:

Without the cross, Jesus Christ would not be Jesus. You can't focus on a living talking Jesus Christ without acknowledging what He did at the cross.

Without the Cross, there is no salvation. And without acknowledging the significance of His death on that Cross and subsequent resurrection, how are you saved? What do you use in explaining how and why men are saved?

And I'm not talking about making the Cross into an idol. But what ya'll sound like you're doing is what I see too often in churches. And that is where they have removed any semblance of anything that gives people reason to reflect on Jesus Christ and what He did.

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Zaac said:

Without the cross, Jesus Christ would not be Jesus. You can't focus on a living talking Jesus Christ without acknowledging what He did at the cross.

Without the Cross, there is no salvation. And without acknowledging the significance of His death on that Cross and subsequent resurrection, how are you saved? What do you use in explaining how and why men are saved?

And I'm not talking about making the Cross into an idol. But what ya'll sound like you're doing is what I see too often in churches. And that is where they have removed any semblance of anything that gives people reason to reflect on Jesus Christ and what He did.

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Aalbiel said:

Zaac said:

I really don't understand this cross-wearing stuff. Especially when they are made from precious metals encased in diamonds and the like. I thought Jesus said to take only two rough garments of clothing and a pair of sandals, and follow him.

Look. Jesus was homeless, ok? He didn't own a house, or a mule, and didn't have a job. The cross in current use is merely to indicate a social group, like waving a flag, or putting on a jersey. God knows his own. If you want to be reminded of his sacrifice, just look around...dead things decomposing, giving nutrients back to plants so that we may eat and be satisfied and then die ourselves so others may eat. Beef dies in the slaughterhouse, has communion with the expecting mother at dinner, and is reborn in her child.

The cross is a symbol to be contemplated, not a great bloody sculpture to be held high and defended. I mean, with the whole race issue, and whatnot, Jesus has to look a certain way, and how bloody should we make his clothes? Should he have a look of anguish or peace? How long was his hair, and what color...ad nauseam, until we are more concerned with how our church looks, and how our cross looks that we ignore the whole point of observing god in everything in every moment.

It degenerates into a competition between brothers for who god loves best.

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I'm only trying to point out to my fellow Christians that we could all be endagering ourselves with out knowing it. Really think about it. Don't let emotion cloud your thinking. I know it goes against everything you have been taught but really give it thought. Plus we all know Satan is the father of lies. So please really think about it. The church did not start splitting until the bible was made public. People starting reading it for them selves and saw the truth. There is still more truths in there. The church is an institute not the teachings of Jesus.

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