Is it worth it?

Phinehas2 · May 30, 2008

In answer to the OP question and poll, I think everyone has potentially been affected positively by the debates in that the views and opinions have been stated. Whether anyone has changed their position or not I suspect not as I suspect the positions are so opposed as to be unreconcileable. ... but we have at least been discussing it as fellow forum members.

ChaliceThunder · May 30, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
False witness would be things like LGBTs are depraved and degenerate, care only about sex, have a "gay lifestyle", have diseases, etc. When people seek to harm others and their families it is not false witness to state so. Things like seeking to deny LGBT families health insurance is an act of pure unadulterated hatred and there are no two ways of looking at that.

This is very well put, TexasLynn - thank you!

Too many "christians" spend an inordinate amount of time and energy focusing on what they THINK lgbt people are up to. They believe the lies of the AFA and Focus on the Family, and give no personal regard to the fact that many of us are faithful followers of Jesus, living normal lives, raising families, being extraordinary contributors to the well-being of the community.

What motivates people to seek to undermine brothers and sisters who are children of the Living God?
(If it's not hatred, maybe it's fear)

In what way are they serving Christ by denying lgbt families health insurance?
(again - is it hatred or fear?)

The most tragic part of this, to me, is that it represents a Sad Christianity. Tragically Sad and Weak. Where is their joy and strength in God?

MercyBurst · May 30, 2008

As you can see from the poll results this forum just serves as an arm of the Gay Christian Movement. It does nothing to edify the name of Christ.

I say CLOSE IT.

BTW, some of us believe the effect OF THE FORUM itself is largely very negative.. I wasn't allowed to vote negative 50 for the FORUM.

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

ChaliceThunder said:
This is very well put, TexasLynn - thank you!

Too many "christians" spend an inordinate amount of time and energy focusing on what they THINK lgbt people are up to. They believe the lies of the AFA and Focus on the Family, and give no personal regard to the fact that many of us are faithful followers of Jesus, living normal lives, raising families, being extraordinary contributors to the well-being of the community.

What motivates people to seek to undermine brothers and sisters who are children of the Living God?
(If it's not hatred, maybe it's fear)

In what way are they serving Christ by denying lgbt families health insurance?
(again - is it hatred or fear?)

The most tragic part of this, to me, is that it represents a Sad Christianity. Tragically Sad and Weak. Where is their joy and strength in God?

Thank you. Your post here is very excellent and says many things which needed to be said.

As to hatred and fear they are two sides of the coin. I recently read a little regarding Kristallnacht the coordinated Nazi rioting against Jews in 1938 before the Holocaust was in effect. As Hitler had mentioned in Mein Kampf and it was a common belief that all Jews were carriers of syphillis many Jewish women were not raped because their attackers feared contracting disease. What an irony that is.

I recall Sherri Reynolds' novel The Rapture of Caanan about a girl growing up in a communal extreme Christian cult, in which she described the compound as "an island of sadness sinking under its own weight".

There is nothing admirable or beautiful about the tenacity and the bitterness of the religious right; the entire program they offer is to build up their leaders by putting down certain ones they seek to marginalize: LGBTs, vulnerable women who abort, etc. (I read one thing on a right wing web site about how if a Democrat is elected this fall as President it will mean even more extreme tattooing and piercing among our young...the fearmongering just gets more and more bizarre).

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

MercyBurst said:
As you can see from the poll results this forum just serves as an arm of the Gay Christian Movement. It does nothing to edify the name of Christ.

I say CLOSE IT.

BTW, some of us believe the effect OF THE FORUM itself is largely very negative.. I wasn't allowed to vote negative 50 for the FORUM.

You are certainly free to refrain from participating here.

It is difficult to see how the particular subforum could "serve as an arm of the gay Christian Movement" when major restrictions apply against those who advocate for full acceptance and celebration of our LGBT brothers and sisters and their families while those which seek to harm LGBT folk have carte blanche to call us anything and everything. Perhaps when an effort is made for a level playing field then the forces of righteousness will prevail, so the forces of unrighteousness will then seek to un-level the field by whatever means available.

The assertion this forum "does not edify the name of Christ" is unsupportable and at face value laughable.

The "negative effect" of this forum consists of the severe bitterness expressed toward LGBT Brothers and Sisters. those of us who work to counteract that honor Christ with our feeble protests and restricted corrections to disinformation.

Phinehas2 · May 30, 2008

Dear Chalice Thunder,
I believe Christians need to counter false teaching that is same-sex unions. I believe Christians who do so get accused of spending too much time on it yet the time spent is only in proportion to the false teaching. I am certain God doesn’t see people as GLBT, the scripture doesn’t mention it and says the opposite, that there is no distinction of even male and female in Christ. If there is no distinction of who God did make there can certainly be no distinction of who He didn’t create.
Anyone can claim they follow Christ and do exactly the opposite of what Christ requires. For the Christian the joy of the Lord is our strength, that means our joy is found in Christ not a sexual identity, sad though it might seem to those who have a joy in a sexual identity.

tulc · May 30, 2008

As you can see from the poll results this forum just serves as an arm of the Gay Christian Movement. It does nothing to edify the name of Christ.

I think you're wrong, any time people are discussing something is better then not discussing.

I say CLOSE IT.

hmmm so because you don't like something it shouldn't exist? Why participate if you dislike it so much? Is it because people wont agree with you no matter how many times you say they're wrong? That must be very frustrating.

BTW, some of us believe the effect OF THE FORUM itself is largely very negative.. I wasn't allowed to vote negative 50 for the FORUM.

...again, why come here if you find it so negative?
tulc(seems kind of odd participating here when there's so many other fora in CF you don't find so negative)

tulc · May 30, 2008

I now wait for the "Fred Phelps is a Democrat!!" post.
tulc(lives for those things)

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

Regarding the poll results:

Remember the question was: ""How many people do you believe you have affected positively in DOH? "

At present we have 60% saying zero, and 40 % saying from a few to more.

The results certainly do not support closure of this forum. The small number of responses plus the difference between that proposition and the closure of this sub forum make such a conclusion both unreliable and invalid. Take it from a researcher who knows.

Not to criticize Miracle Storm, the thread starter but the meaning of the question is ambiguous in that it will mean different things to different persons. I answered with the maximum positivity rating because of how I have developed collegial relationships with like minds, had some interesting dialogues with a very small number of those of opposing views, offered protection to the little lambs and served The Lord by comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

Others may have viewed the proposition as one in which "affected positively" refers to changing minds. Given strong feelings and opinions here such a goal is not realistic. I myself have never posted on any message board with the intent of changing the mind of person committed to opposite viewpoints.

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

tulc said:
I now wait for the "Fred Phelps is a Democrat!!" post.
tulc(lives for those things)

I guess we could counter that with "Mary Cheney's a lesbian mom married to Heather Poe and they both work for the Republican National Committee; and given her and her str8 sister's (the one with the five kids) goofy essays they think this is 1898 and their Dad's a clone of Theodore Roosevelt and his empire building is righteous good bull."

MercyBurst · May 30, 2008

Just tell us again that "All fundies are racists" and I'll tell you again about Fred Phelps the civil rights attorney and registered democrat. It breaks that stereotype in a million pieces.

Texas Lynn said:
I guess we could counter that with "Mary Cheney's a lesbian mom married to Heather Poe and they both work for the Republican National Committee; and given her and her str8 sister's (the one with the five kids) goofy essays they think this is 1898 and their Dad's a clone of Theodore Roosevelt and his empire building is righteous good bull."

Phinehas2 · May 30, 2008

What is a lesbian mum? it does no credit ot Jesus Christ. It is the profane offered as holy.

tulc · May 30, 2008

It breaks that stereotype in a million pieces.

uhmm ok.
tulc(I think you're expecting a lot out of one fact, but if it makes you feel better go ahead)

tulc · May 30, 2008

What is a lesbian mum?

...wouldn't that be a mom who's a lesbian?

it does no credit ot Jesus Christ.

I can't see it doing Him any harm either, it's just a fact not an argument.

It is the profane offered as holy.

How so?
tulc(just curious)

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

Phinehas2 said:
What is a lesbian mum? it does no credit ot Jesus Christ. It is the profane offered as holy.

Ask "Big Time" Dick about his 6th grandchild but don't brace yourself when the Secret Service wrestles you to the ground.

Like us the Cheney and Bush families are United Methodists as are Hillary Clinton and Chelsea (Bill's a Baptist) and John Edwards and family.

Texas Lynn · May 30, 2008

MercyBurst said:
Just tell us again that "All fundies are racists" and I'll tell you again about Fred Phelps the civil rights attorney and registered democrat. It breaks that stereotype in a million pieces.

When I argue this stuff one on one and tell them my sister's married to an Afro-Carribean Union Staffers they usually go, "Oh, well, I'm agin that too."

There's a difference between a red spool of thread and a spool of red thread.

Fred Phelps is a racist?

onemessiah · May 30, 2008

MercyBurst said:
As you can see from the poll results this forum just serves as an arm of the Gay Christian Movement. It does nothing to edify the name of Christ.

I say CLOSE IT.

BTW, some of us believe the effect OF THE FORUM itself is largely very negative.. I wasn't allowed to vote negative 50 for the FORUM.

Typical.

And if the effect of this forum is negative, then blame it on the bible. It doesn't give you much (sensible) ammo to work with, on this topic, at least.
But I have no idea how Gay Rights are a negative thing?? Sounds like some backwoods cult thing to fight it.

Miracle Storm · May 30, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
Regarding the poll results:

Remember the question was: ""How many people do you believe you have affected positively in DOH? "

At present we have 60% saying zero, and 40 % saying from a few to more.

The results certainly do not support closure of this forum. The small number of responses plus the difference between that proposition and the closure of this sub forum make such a conclusion both unreliable and invalid. Take it from a researcher who knows.

Just want to say that wasn't even a thought in my mind when I started this poll.

Texas Lynn said:
Not to criticize Miracle Storm, the thread starter but the meaning of the question is ambiguous in that it will mean different things to different persons. I answered with the maximum positivity rating because of how I have developed collegial relationships with like minds, had some interesting dialogues with a very small number of those of opposing views, offered protection to the little lambs and served The Lord by comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

Maybe I should stop making polls, everytime I do someone complains.
You are certainly right though Texas Lynn. When asked the question I didn't mean "have you helped anyone make it through a rough day" "Did you defend the helpless or the attacked"
I was just wondering if people had felt they had changed anyone's view points.
But the responses I got from those who do come here for other valid reasons besides changing someone certainly encouraged me. I don't believe there would be any reason whatsoever to close this forum down besides that it makes some uncomfortable..Those it makes uncomfortable do not have to post in it though.

Texas Lynn said:
Others may have viewed the proposition as one in which "affected positively" refers to changing minds. Given strong feelings and opinions here such a goal is not realistic. I myself have never posted on any message board with the intent of changing the mind of person committed to opposite viewpoints.

I suck at making polls! lol

Is it worth it?

How many people do you believe you have affected positively in DOH?

Absolutely none.

1-3

4-6

7-9

10 or more

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