whisper_dishmon said:
outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>
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whisper_dishmon said:Personally, not being rude, but I find the logic about masturbation being different from sex bogus. You say there is no proof that it isnt a sin..and I say there isnt any proof that it is. So as Ive said before..this kind of argument gets old.
Manso said:outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>
Actually I didn't see any it's a sin type things . I found this( 1Tim 5:6)Romans 13:14Manso said:so said anything about lust? if i never met a woman/(another person for that matter) before and never knew about sex i would still get the urge to release. if i grew up on an island all alone, i would eventually start to touch, how can there be lust in such a situation, lust and touching yourself/sexual tension are completely seperate, but *usually* go hand in hand.
no, i was not offended, i just feel strongly about this discussion, and the only examples of touching yourself being bad are usually based on opinion and no logic/facts to back it up. i will gladly except any evidence other than, "i feel it in my heart" / "touching yourself is sex" / etc... i want "here is the scripture" / "this research shows" ..... i'm sorry if i come on strong, but i'm sure you've seen some of those replies earlier in the thread, "IT IS A SIN!" type stuff, makes me a bit touchy..<time for a chill pill for me> breath... breath...
Im glad you dont judge people, thats very important. As hard as it may seem, some people say they can do it without those sexual thoughts. I, however, cant see it possible. From this thread, it reminded me that lust is a sin, and I do lust when I do it. Therefore, I have not done it for 6, count it 6 days, which is very hard for me. I have caught myself lusting more after girls, sexual thoughts, etc... but I think it will get better the more I can hold off. I put it this way, although i'm sinnin gmore trying to stop, in the long run, I will be free (or pretty close) to free of lust. Trust me though, it gets easier and easier the longer you can hold off.GraceAnneWinter said:In the book Not Even A Hint by Joshua Harris, he says this about masturbation:
"Because Scriptures doesn't specifically name the act of masturbation, a heated debate has erupted among Christians, and there is an endless array of opinions on the issue...God's Word does address the issue and gives us everything we need to deal with it...I think Christians make too big a deal of masturbation in that we obsess over the act and neglect the more important issues of the heart. No question, God is concerned with our actions, but He's even more interested in our motivations...When I say we shouldn't make a big deal of masturbation, I'm saying we shouldn't make it the primary barometer of our spiritual lives. Lust is a serious sin. Masturbation is one expression of a lustful heart...The reason this very private act matters to God is not because it involves our genitals, but because it involves our hearts. And God is passionately committed to our hearts belonging completely to Him (see Deuteronomy 6:5). Masturbation isn't a filthy habit that makes people dirty. It only reveals the dirt that's already in our hearts. It's an indicator that we're feeding the wrong desires...Now you might be thinking, What are you talking about my heart for? This is about my sex drive and is purely biological. Don't even little kids do this before they are old enough to lust? Hear me out. I'm not ignoring the biological realities involved with this issue...A guy's body produces sperm that at some point has to be released...So in a sense, masturbation is natural. But does natural mean good? As Christians we have to be careful about assuming that something that comes naturally to humans is morally insignificant. We live in a fallen world. Every part of this planet and our humanity has been marred by sin...Because of sin, even if masturbation starts out innocently in a child, it inevitably begins to involve lustful desires and fantasy. For most people the act is impossible to separate from lust in the heart--whether this involves pornography or not...I know there are Christians who claim they can mastubate without lusting. They say they think nonsexual thoughts and do it merely for release. It's not my place to judge the hearts of these people. I can only speak from my own experience when I say that I highly doubt this is possible. What I've seen is that lust was always present in a significant way either leading up to or during the act...Even if it were possible to touch without lust, I think a lifestyle of masturbation is based on a wrong understanding of God's plan for sex. Masturbation is built on a self-centered view of sex.This wrong attitude says that sex is based solely on you and your pleasure...This is the natural tendency of sin. It isolates us from others and makes pleasure self-focused."
I think all of us trying to debate something we cant answer is bogus. You have no actual proof of God giving the ok for it. Just because its good for your health has nothing to do with sin. I cant verify my response about masturbation either, and the fact that you want to debate about masturbation with a 16 year old girl is a little silly.Manso said:outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>
Holly3278 said:The Bible does not mention masturbation anywhere. It's a gray area which means it is a matter of personal conscience. The verse about Onan is not referring to masturbation but to the withdrawal method of birth control.
Manso said:although, a line has to be drawn somewhere, the "disagree with not marrying legally"
1. if the government "ok"s gay marriage, should you accept it because the Bible says to submit to the current authority
by not agreeing with that, you denouce that the government has the power to spirually marry two people. i guess what i getting at, is the laws of man can change, but God never changes, so the law of man is the current government, but i guess even the government doesn't have anything against my non-legal marriage, so what am i breaking? i just don't want to get legally married before i have a job with benefits. legal marriage is a peice of paper, spiritual marriage is forever. it's possible to be legally marriage and not spiritually marrried, same back the other way, which is more important?
****is is so off subject, sorry ppl, last post of this topic "the marriage thing">
LittlePinky82 said:With gay marriage that has to do with the law. Not your personal belief system. The government shouldn't be favorable to one group of people. The church doesn't have to have anything to do with it but the government should still allow it. Simply not having gay marriage because of a religious belief system is wrong. So what if the wiccans said stealing should be legal (I'm sure they wouldn't but this is just an example so bare with me). They have a crede that says: "Do as ye will be harm no one." So should stealing be made legal? Of course not. My beliefs are for my PERSONAL life just like someone else's of another faith. How would you like it if you were a minority? Would you like that? Don't like gay marriage? DOn't do it! But don't keep someone else from doing it. You're not God are you? So who made you judge? Same thing with touching yourself. Each person can only judge themselves.
That was refreshing, esp. coming from an american christian (and I mean no offense to americans, I just often find them to be a little too morally-minded about other people's business).LittlePinky82 said:With gay marriage that has to do with the law. Not your personal belief system. The government shouldn't be favorable to one group of people. The church doesn't have to have anything to do with it but the government should still allow it. Simply not having gay marriage because of a religious belief system is wrong. So what if the wiccans said stealing should be legal (I'm sure they wouldn't but this is just an example so bare with me). They have a crede that says: "Do as ye will be harm no one." So should stealing be made legal? Of course not. My beliefs are for my PERSONAL life just like someone else's of another faith. How would you like it if you were a minority? Would you like that? Don't like gay marriage? DOn't do it! But don't keep someone else from doing it. You're not God are you? So who made you judge? Same thing with touching yourself. Each person can only judge themselves.
SH89 said:I believe that the government should stick out of the personal life of its citizens, however, gay marriage is a big issue. A gay couple has ever right to stay together(under the law of the US), but marriage is something that should be uplifted. The church is symbolically married to Christ. Also, accepting gay marriage can result in a fall(morally) in the United States.
For example:
The government has no right to say that marrying an animal is wrong-it is the personal opinion of citizens that feel that marrying an animal is wrong. The government has no right to say that marrying a family member is wrong-why should it be wrong? It is your personal belief that marrying a family member is wrong.
We should set the standard somewhere(in marriage) between a men and a women. If e do not, then there shouldn't be anything legally wrong with marrying an animal or a family member.
holo said:That was refreshing, esp. coming from an american christian (and I mean no offense to americans, I just often find them to be a little too morally-minded about other people's business).
winglovesall said:Well, speaking of gay marriage , there's been a growing tension in Hong Kong at the moment about whether gay marriage is acceptable or not -
As our leader is a Christian leader, he says No. However, because Hong Kong is a democratic and free society - some people say that it violates Human Rights conditions.
God created Adam. But God also created Eve as well - to be a partner - and so, God doesn't like gay marriages.
SH89 said:I believe that the government should stick out of the personal life of its citizens, however, gay marriage is a big issue. A gay couple has ever right to stay together(under the law of the US), but marriage is something that should be uplifted. The church is symbolically married to Christ. Also, accepting gay marriage can result in a fall(morally) in the United States.
For example:
The government has no right to say that marrying an animal is wrong-it is the personal opinion of citizens that feel that marrying an animal is wrong. The government has no right to say that marrying a family member is wrong-why should it be wrong? It is your personal belief that marrying a family member is wrong.
We should set the standard somewhere(in marriage) between a men and a women. If e do not, then there shouldn't be anything legally wrong with marrying an animal or a family member.
winglovesall said:And yes - it has been the issue along with democratic protests in Hong Kong at the moment -
And I agree - people should have the will to believe because of God's free will in the beginning.
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